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Pregnant and scared of how my father(& mother) will be - 3/9/2010 11:29:01 AM
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bella05
Posts: 44
Joined: 4/22/2008
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Hi,
I'll try to make this brief but don't think that it'll happen. My husband and I are expecting our first baby in 3 months, yay!
Thankfully all is going well except one thing. And that is my parents and I don't have the greatest relationship. We're not very close but it's decent. I do have boundaries with my parents. I talk to my mother once a week and that's all I am comfortable with for now.
Growing up my father was verbally and sometimes physically abusive. When I was about 13, he and my mother separated for awhile because my mother found out that he was having an affair for 5 years. They decided to get back together and work on their marriage. My father was okay for a bit, but the verbal abuse started again. He would make jokes about my physical attributes, about my personality, my intelligence and so on. He was constantly sarcastic and pretty cruel about it. My mother didn't do much about it and sometimes joined in with my father. They were terrible disciplinarians. My father used aggression, intimidation and bullying if I did something wrong. He yelled and screamed so loud that his voice would crack and become horse. He always clench his fists as if he was about to hit me and say things like, "I'm going to put you through a wall". Sometimes he would break things. I remember him smashing my phone because I was on it past 9PM one night. My mother would just sit there. I felt that she pretty much adapted to his way of disciplining. She was very short-tempered like him. As far as me having my own opinion or think differently from them was out of the question. My feelings were always disregarded. When they called me names and I became upset, they would say I was "oversensitive". And I began to think I was crazy and they would encourage it. It goes on and on.
Until I got married I literally thought this behavior was normal within families. At times during and after college, I did think that something was wrong and I questioned how I was raised. Mainly because I saw how sweet and loving some of my friends parents were. I always wished my parents were like that.
A couple years ago, my parents and I got in a fight literally about something so minute and minor. It was pointless. I got in an argument with my sister and they felt that they had every right to be involved. My parents called to yell at me, mind you this is a month after my wedding and my new husband and I were so happy but at the same time trying to adapt to marriage. My mother said I was a horrible daughter, my father went on a rampage of insults, both were using instances from my past against me that had nothing to do with the current situation. It was like a switch went off and they just carried on and on. The only reason I stayed on the phone was because if I hung-up they would call again and become even more angry, which is what they did in the past. My husband thought they were crazy and has never experienced this from his parents before. I didn't talk to my parents for months because I was so hurt and embarrassed. They couldn't understand why I was not talking to them, they expected everything to continue as normal and push it all under the rug like they did during my childhood.
I decided to go to my church and talk with a counselor. I did so for about a year and she helped me see that this irrational behavior isn't normal and told me it's not my fault.
Now my parents and I talk but we're not close. Of course we never bring up the past, to them all the arguments and abuse never happened. They think they're never at fault. So we see them once every 2 or 3 months and it is somewhat of a struggle for me when I do see them. I'm a little on edge because I know any minute they can say something rude or inappropriate. I'm not mean to them or anything. Things are cordial but I do have boundaries.
Now that I'm pregnant, my father thinks that I'm the best thing since sliced bread. Now he's all smothersome and over-emotional in a mushy kind of way. He gives bear hugs and does and say things that are so confusing. It's not the first time he's acted this way. He's emotions go from extremely angry to intense idealization. It's utterly mind-boggling. It's really uncomfortable too. He put his hand on my lower abdomen when I was only 15 weeks pregnant and hardly showing. Didn't ask, just decided to do it. I had to turn my body to move his hand. Very awkward. I called my mother one time and he answered the phone. He went on and on about how "he" was going to be a grandfather and how happy "he" is. That's all he's been saying since I told them that I was pregnant. He gets all choked-up, teary eyed, says awkward emotional things. At times I feel like my stomach is in knots. My heart sinks and I get this awkward feeling in my gut. I can't stand it. Other people may think this is so sweet, a father tearing-up about being a grandfather. To me, it's strange, uncomfortable and confusing because he has no control over his emotions.
I don't know what to do. Talking to him about this scares me because he never has any regard for my feelings and he'll turn this around on me. I'm scared he'll smother my future child and just cry and cry. It's all about "him" right now. He's going to be a grandfather, he's so happy, he, he, he. You think I would be more frightened about the delivery but I'm more scared on how my father will react when my parents come to the hospital to visit. I don't know how intrusive they'll be. They might want to see the baby once or twice a month, maybe more. And that means me seeing more of him. I'm afraid they'll be overbearing and not respect how I discipline our child. I already mentioned to my mother that I might need sometime alone with my husband and the baby in the hospital. She asked angrily, "Well, how much time?" Then she said, "One or 2 hours is enough time and then we'll be there." I changed the subject.
I literally think my father has borderline personality disorder. He has all the symptoms. He's too prideful to get help. My mother I feel has some of my fathers characteristics. I think she just got used to how he is and became more like him.
I do want a couple more counseling sessions at our church but it's expensive. I feel better writing this all out. Any advice on how to handle this? Has anyone every dealt with people who have borderline personality disorder or traits like it? Do I need to restrict the amount of time my father sees the baby? Should I say something? Has anyone ever told their parents to stop being overbearing or intrusive when it came to your children?
Thanks in advance. Blessings.
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RE: Pregnant and scared of how my father(& mother) will be - 3/9/2010 11:54:21 AM
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3cappuccinosmom
Posts: 3999
Joined: 4/12/2005
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(((Bella)))
Given your history and your parents irrational and toxic behavior, yes you need to set strong boundaries from the beginning. Your dad's behavior is particularly disturbing but your description of the both of them just sets my teeth on edge. I'm so sorry you grew up with that.  If your parents over time become better people (unlikely without God's work in their lives), then you can choose to move the boundaries back a little, as they prove to be trustworthy and healthy. But if you don't set firm restrictions now while they're so demonstrably toxic, you will end up being hurt, and possibly allowing them to hurt your child as well, not to mention your relationship with your husband.
At the very least one restriction would be that these two are never alone with your child(ren) and that they will not be babysitting for you, ever.
Don't call them when you go into labor. Call them after the baby's born and when you feel ready to see them. Otherwise you take the risk of them showing up and making a scene at the hospital.
I think you need to come to a place of acceptance with the fact that you may not ever have a normal healthy relationship with your parents, and that your children may grow up without that particular set of grandparents as key players in their life. If you can accept that, you'll be able to stick to firm boundaries to protect your marriage and your children, and not feel the need to "give them one more chance" again and again when the result is always bad. If your husband has healthy family, let them be the memory-makers and involved grandparents. It is sad that your children may lack a set of grandparents, but it is better to "lack" than to grow up enmeshed in your parents emotional volatility and bizarre behavior, kwim?
_____________________________
 Moo
"Yup, I'm in agreement with Maggie here on all of this" Manda, April 2010
The Ballad of Bad Biruk
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RE: Pregnant and scared of how my father(& mother) will be - 3/9/2010 1:39:05 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 1978
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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I echo everything 3capp said, and I'm so sorry you are going through this turmoil during what should be such a joyful time in your life.
BTW, you mentioned that your church is charging you for counseling and I wanted to let you know that is not right. I work in Pastoral Care at my church and do women's counseling and we would never think to charge for that service. I know of no other church where I live that charges either. Perhaps there is another church in your area where you can get your counseling for free as it should be.
Congratulations to you and your husband, and I pray the Lord would give you a quick and uncomplicated delivery and that you would be blessed with a beautiful, healthy baby.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Pregnant and scared of how my father(& mother) will be - 3/9/2010 2:06:14 PM
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crankius
Posts: 3362
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quote:
I literally think my father has borderline personality disorder. He has all the symptoms. He's too prideful to get help. My mother I feel has some of my fathers characteristics. I think she just got used to how he is and became more like him.
 That's very sad.
I'm glad you are looking at your parents with your brain and not just with your emotions. It is right for you to be cautious with them given their pattern of behavior.
3Capp had a great post. After you have your baby, don't call your parents until you are ready to see them. If that means while you are at the hospital, then fine, but if it means not until you are home and settled as a family, that is fine too.
Regarding your overall relationship with your parents, you and your husband can talk about what you want to do, and your husband can stand firm with you on your decisions. I've been in a similar spot--it's so much easier to navigate through these difficult relationships if the two of you stand together.
And Kat is also right--you shouldn't have to pay for quality Christian counseling if a local church has that service available for free. However, sometimes free service is not available in every town, so do what you have to do to receive excellent counsel.  About three months after having my first baby, I was overwhelmed with MIL issues and memories from my own childhood, and a couple sessions with an excellent Christian counselor were a great help to me!
I pray God blesses you and your husband with a healthy baby, and may yours be a joyful Christ-centered household.
< Message edited by crankius -- 3/9/2010 2:58:31 PM >
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
God's Attributes
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RE: Pregnant and scared of how my father(& mother) will be - 3/9/2010 2:09:38 PM
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laura...
Posts: 3351
Joined: 3/1/2005
From: NE Ohio
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Congratulation on the upcoming birth of your baby. &:)
quote:
Don't call them when you go into labor. Call them after the baby's born and when you feel ready to see them. Otherwise you take the risk of them showing up and making a scene at the hospital.
I agree with Capp. Don't tell them when you go to the hospital. When you go into the hospital or set up preregistration, inform the hospital that you do not want your admission to the hospital to be open knowledge. If you are in the hospital more than a day or two then you might want to tell your parents but otherwise wait until you and the baby go home.
quote:
I literally think my father has borderline personality disorder. He has all the symptoms. He's too prideful to get help. My mother I feel has some of my fathers characteristics. I think she just got used to how he is and became more like him.
I do want a couple more counseling sessions at our church but it's expensive. I feel better writing this all out. Any advice on how to handle this? Has anyone every dealt with people who have borderline personality disorder or traits like it? Do I need to restrict the amount of time my father sees the baby? Should I say something?
One of the main ways of dealing with someone with Borderline Personality Disorder is maintaining very strong boundaries. Letting him know what those very clear boundaries are is also good practice unless doing so provokes an unsafe situation. You can tell them upfront that you and your husband do not want visitors at the hospital therefore you will not be telling them when you go into labor but will tell them when you and the baby get home unless a life threatening situation arises.
Use lots of "I feel/when you" messages. For example: "I feel very anxious and smothered when you don't control your emotions. It becomes too stressful for me at this time. So, we needed to set this limit." That's not trying to control their behavior. It is determining your response to their behavior.
< Message edited by laura... -- 3/9/2010 2:18:01 PM >
_____________________________
Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith... ...so that you will not grow weary and lose heart. Hebrew 12:3-4
Follow me on Twitter: MrsLalaD
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RE: Pregnant and scared of how my father(& mother) will be - 3/9/2010 2:16:52 PM
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SurpassingPeace
Posts: 1381
Joined: 11/21/2007
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3Capps is right on in her post.
I want to emphasize.
quote:
think you need to come to a place of acceptance with the fact that you may not ever have a normal healthy relationship with your parents, and that your children may grow up without that particular set of grandparents as key players in their life. If you can accept that, you'll be able to stick to firm boundaries to protect your marriage and your children, and not feel the need to "give them one more chance" again and again when the result is always bad. If your husband has healthy family, let them be the memory-makers and involved grandparents. It is sad that your children may lack a set of grandparents, but it is better to "lack" than to grow up enmeshed in your parents emotional volatility and bizarre behavior, kwim?
This is so hard to do but so very important. We all have these ideas of what family should be, grandparents should be. It can be easy to fall into the trap of thinking, "well, maybe if I just....then they will act right" or "maybe they just need another chance" but it doesn't work. It is so hard to accept that irrational people will not behave rationally no matter what we do. I know it sounds silly but when you have just had a baby and you long for that extended family experience it can be hard to accept that you don't get that.
I pray that God will bless your husband, your baby, and you. It is such an amazing time in life.
_____________________________
Karen
Proud Member of the Imperfect Wives' Club
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RE: Pregnant and scared of how my father(& mother) will be - 3/9/2010 2:23:13 PM
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manda59
Posts: 7689
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bella05
You think I would be more frightened about the delivery but I'm more scared on how my father will react when my parents come to the hospital to visit.
bella, it's *your choice* if and when they come to the hospital to visit.
quote:
I don't know how intrusive they'll be.
They can only be as intrusive as *you* allow them to be.
quote:
They might want to see the baby once or twice a month, maybe more.
And that means me seeing more of him.
bella, it's *your choice* how often they see the baby, it's up to *you*, not up to them.
quote:
I'm afraid they'll be overbearing and not respect how I discipline our child.
They're entitled to their opinion - it's *your choice* how much (or little) notice you take of it.
quote:
I already mentioned to my mother that I might need sometime alone with my husband and the baby in the hospital. She asked angrily, "Well, how much time?" Then she said, "One or 2 hours is enough time and then we'll be there." I changed the subject.
Are you sure you want her at the hospital at all?
It seems to me that you felt almost apologetic about wanting a couple of hours on your own with your husband (and personally, I think that is no time at all, especially as you don't know how things will go, how you will feel).
quote:
I do want a couple more counseling sessions at our church but it's expensive. I feel better writing this all out. Any advice on how to handle this? Has anyone every dealt with people who have borderline personality disorder or traits like it? Do I need to restrict the amount of time my father sees the baby? Should I say something? Has anyone ever told their parents to stop being overbearing or intrusive when it came to your children?
Has your counsellor been speaking to you about learning to establish and implement healthy boundaries with your parents? Because if they haven't, then I think you need to be seeing someone else, because healthy boundaries are the key to your managing your situation wisely, and to your satisfaction and peace of mind. Healthy boundaries will put you in control, instead of putting your parents in control.
_____________________________
"Manda – I can often skip posting 'cause she's got it covered!", sen10tious, July 2010
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RE: Pregnant and scared of how my father(& mother) will be - 3/9/2010 3:08:01 PM
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deermousie
Posts: 2688
Joined: 9/26/2007
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Bella, you've gotten excellent advice here - please consider it carefully. There is great wisdom here.
Your parents sound so much like mine, it's scary. Except, it didn't vacillate between insults/threats and mushy - there was never any mushy.
Your father is wildly inappropriate and out of control - personally, I would move far away and never invite them to visit (and leave town if they announce they are coming over). I would keep my baby far away from them because your father is way over the line.
If your mother never protected you, she won't protect her grandchild, either. Don't trust either of them to behave in a healthy manner.
Don't hope that suddenly your parents will change - it takes years to do that, and they'd have to be healthy for years before I'd trust it to be a real change.
Your father is not protective, he's not nurturing, he sees only himself and not you, he's menacing, he's dangerous, and your mother won't stand up to him. He's a run-away train and your mother can't stop him, you can't stop him, your husband hasn't stopped him, and there's no one between the trainwreck and your helpless child.
You probably can't move away, but I would not let your parents near this baby. They will fuss, make scenes, threaten, cry, manipulate, and act like total crazies, but you have to protect your child from the gorillas you can't control and who have proven to be out of control and inappropriate and harmful. Yes, it may cause a break between you and your parents, and that could be the best thing for your family. Leave and cleave.
My father died before I was married or I would have done this sooner, but when I realized my mother was constantly putting my kid's welfare and life at risk, we moved thousands of miles away. She was ticked. Too bad. My kid was safe (my mother put my life at risk, too, and constantly told my toddler age-inappropriate stuff and we couldn't make her stop).
When I was a kid, I swore to myself that I would never do this harmful stuff to my kid, and I wasn't about to let my parent(s) do an end-run around me and abuse my kid for me. I would (and did) protect my child from all known harm, which included my abusive family. She's an adult now, sane and healthy. DH tells me she is me done right.
In the zoo, we put known dangerous animals in cages. You can't cage your parents, but you can stay away from them. They've hurt you all your life; unless God intervenes it's not going to change. They hurt you, they'll hurt your kid. Be a parent and protect your child.
And God bless you. You will be a Pivot Parent - one who doesn't pass the abuse to the next generation, but instead does family God's way and turns the family towards God in one generation. And protects the next generation from the harm of the one behind you.
Will it be hard? You bet. Your parents will fume and fuss for years. My goal was to protect my kid, and I bore the tempest of my mother's rage. It's what parents do if it's necessary. I would do anything necessary to give my kid a healthy and safe childhood, and that meant keeping the crazy and unsafe grandparent away.
I'm sorry you have parents like this, Bella. Don't let this be part of your kid's childhood. Stand between your kids and those who would hurt them, whatever it costs you. God bless you and your growing family!
You probably can't move away, but I would not let your parents near this baby.
quote:
She asked angrily, "Well, how much time?" Then she said, "One or 2 hours is enough time and then we'll be there."
Tell hospital security who your parents are and insist they not be let in. When you leave the hospital, it's going to be your husband's job to protect his weakened wife and newborn from the crazies. If they come on your property, ask them to leave. If they refuse or get belligerant, call the cops and press trespassing charges. Yes, really; someone has to protect you. If you don't do this, they could camp on your doorstep and stress you out for days/weeks/months/years. You already have enough stress.
In your place, I wouldn't let your father come near that baby. Not once. Who knows what hurtful thing he might do? Be strong and courageous, Bella. You're a mother now; be a Grizzly Bear Mama and protect your cub.
_____________________________
People died to give you the Bible in your language.
Read it. Eat it. Dwell in it. Rightly divide it. Live it.
Laugh, dance, praise your God, and go read some more. And God bless you.
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RE: Pregnant and scared of how my father(& mother) will be - 3/9/2010 5:15:29 PM
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3cappuccinosmom
Posts: 3999
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
It is sad that your children may lack a set of grandparents, but it is better to "lack" than to grow up enmeshed in your parents emotional volatility and bizarre behavior, kwim?
I should add, I say this as someone who had one set of great grandparents, and another who were a mess. When we were little, my mother's father was already on the way out. He was harmless. But my mother's mother was the most mean, bitter, angry, snarky woman imaginable and my parents protected us from her. We never lived near her, we had minimal visits, and she never babysat (though I doubt she ever asked to).
When we were all teens, she became ill and my parents brought her to live nearby (but still not in our home, lol) and we were able to see a beautiful demonstration of Christ's love to her through my parents. But by that point we were not vulnerable and we had a good grasp of the fact that it was grandma who was unhealthy and how to relate to her. We were always given the choice whether we wanted to spend time with her. As we got older, we chose to more often, to show kindness and love, still knowing that we weren't "fixing" her and that she was still very much a cranky alligator personality.
Your child can still have a happy childhood lacking one set of grandparents. We did. And there may be a time later on in the future where there's a place for opening up a little more to your parents. But now is not the time. Right now is the time to hunker down and protect your family.
Just wanted to encourage you a little more.
_____________________________
Moo
"Yup, I'm in agreement with Maggie here on all of this" Manda, April 2010
The Ballad of Bad Biruk
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RE: Pregnant and scared of how my father(& mother) will be - 3/9/2010 9:37:21 PM
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bolt.
Posts: 2385
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: Canada
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A lot has been said, so I will say this:
Grand-parenting is not a right, and your parents are not the boss of you.
This baby is yours (and your husband's of course!). You (and he) have been entrusted to protect and nurture him or her. You (and he) decide what and who she is exposed to, when, how often and for how long. If they want to see the baby they will choose behaviour that is acceptable to you. That's a brick-wall boundary, and it is what it is.
If those boundary conversations have emotional consequences for you, you will have to be strong enough to get through that. You don't get to put the comfort of your relationship with your parents above your responsibility to preserve an emotionally safe environment for the child God has given you.
Your new favorite phase is, "Dad. Back off or go home. Behaviour like that is not welcome here." Then have a plan where you go with the baby to another room, and your husband prevents him from following you, including threatening to call the police. Do not see him / them without both of you there. Just say, "That's not a good time how about x-day from whenever to whenever.
And I think it's fair for a professional counsellor to make a professional's living. If the sessions helped before, consider it an investment to get yourself and your relationships balanced now and in those crazy newborn days. It's not for you. It's for your ability to be an excellent mother in difficult circumstances.
_____________________________
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RE: Pregnant and scared of how my father(& mother) will be - 3/9/2010 10:15:57 PM
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Kerrlaw
Posts: 5344
Joined: 5/24/2006
From: Big Orange Country
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quote:
He gets all choked-up, teary eyed, says awkward emotional things. At times I feel like my stomach is in knots. My heart sinks and I get this awkward feeling in my gut. I can't stand it. Other people may think this is so sweet, a father tearing-up about being a grandfather. To me, it's strange, uncomfortable and confusing because he has no control over his emotions.
Trust your instincts.
Part of the cycle of abuse is the mood swings from sorry to lovey-dovey to vicious behavior. And control by the abuser is a big part of it.
_____________________________
That which does not kill us makes us fatter. ~ crankius
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RE: Pregnant and scared of how my father(& mother) will be - 3/10/2010 9:35:43 AM
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buckifn
Posts: 1649
Joined: 5/23/2006
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It sounds like your dad could be bi-polar...or have some other disorder so I would try to keep that in mind every time you think about him...and maybe look into the idea of suggesting he seek medical help.
Have you and your husband considered relocation? I would strongly suggest you put a great amount of distance between you and your parent's while the baby is young. The problems will only intensify as the child gets older.
I am so sorry you do not know the joy of having a loving father to nurture you and see you through all the milestones a daughter longs to celebrate with her dad. I hope your husband understands there is a part of you that is broken because of that and knows how to minister to you in that area. Did the two of you receive any pre-marital counseling?
Because the issue of your parent's isn't just affecting you I would suggest the two of you seek counseling together. Plus maybe some parenting classes would be good? Not because it sounds like you won't be a good parent, but because we often model what we have seen, intentional or not, and you both might learn some very beneficial coping skills as new parent's that you never saw in your own childhood.
Enjoy the days ahead! Being a parent is one of God's greatest gifts, and challenges.
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RE: Pregnant and scared of how my father(& mother) will be - 3/10/2010 12:23:55 PM
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jaimestarcross
Posts: 1117
Joined: 11/28/2005
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I do hope you and your husband are on the same page about keeping boundaries with your parents... because of the family history you have shared in your post. You do need to limit "access" because they haven't changed... being emotionally about a new little one doesn't represent change in their behavior - nor does sweeping things under the rug. Too many have been hurt when things are swept under the rug and a family tries to build relationship as though nothing has happened... from all I have seen(and experienced) from this sort of thing is another generation gets exposed to unhealthy adults who end up verbally and or physically abusing them. I have close relatives that I can't be around because of how they treated me when my mom wasn't looking or present.
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RE: Pregnant and scared of how my father(& mother) will be - 3/10/2010 1:12:33 PM
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CMT8808
Posts: 820
Joined: 9/4/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
(((Bella)))
Given your history and your parents irrational and toxic behavior, yes you need to set strong boundaries from the beginning. Your dad's behavior is particularly disturbing but your description of the both of them just sets my teeth on edge. I'm so sorry you grew up with that. If your parents over time become better people (unlikely without God's work in their lives), then you can choose to move the boundaries back a little, as they prove to be trustworthy and healthy. But if you don't set firm restrictions now while they're so demonstrably toxic, you will end up being hurt, and possibly allowing them to hurt your child as well, not to mention your relationship with your husband.
At the very least one restriction would be that these two are never alone with your child(ren) and that they will not be babysitting for you, ever.
Don't call them when you go into labor. Call them after the baby's born and when you feel ready to see them. Otherwise you take the risk of them showing up and making a scene at the hospital.
I think you need to come to a place of acceptance with the fact that you may not ever have a normal healthy relationship with your parents, and that your children may grow up without that particular set of grandparents as key players in their life. If you can accept that, you'll be able to stick to firm boundaries to protect your marriage and your children, and not feel the need to "give them one more chance" again and again when the result is always bad. If your husband has healthy family, let them be the memory-makers and involved grandparents. It is sad that your children may lack a set of grandparents, but it is better to "lack" than to grow up enmeshed in your parents emotional volatility and bizarre behavior, kwim?
I echo Caps 3 on this and I know it all too well. I was told I could never conceive children, so when I learned that I was I struggled with if I should tell them. (my mother and her husband) I too grew up with the abuse including molestation from her husband.
My mother was the verbal, mental, and physical abuser in which I had shared with my husband on their characters. We set up boundaries that I was never to go visit unless he was available to go.
However the Lord worked on my heart as He had a planned and I told them. I had broken my ankle from a fall and could not visit with them and they came to see if it was true! Imagine that did not even believe me.<sigh>
Anyhow I did not let them know the day the baby was due or when I would be home, but it is like me being pregnant changed them. I know it sounds weird, because from the beginning they were distance, hateful towards me, but in their demented mind I all of a sudden became an interest.
I did not change my bounderies and only visited them and on my terms. I did not deny them to see my child, but it was in the presence of my husband and me and only short visits 30-60 minutes.
Yes there were times they asked for us to stay longer, but I would not do it, because it allows for abuse (verbal and mental) to start. So I always had a reason why we could not stay longer.
If any abuse started before the allotted time the visit would be abruptly shortened and the next visit would be lengthened. IOW You started your junk, so we can not come back until.... say maybe the next month instead of the following week.
If anything the Lord instilled upon me compassion, so if they showed up to my home unannounce I would bring my child out to their car, but not invite them in. This allowed me to control the environment of how long the visit would be.
NEVER and I mean NEVER, EVER leave your child with them to corrupt. Do not minimize what they did to you at any given time that allows you to let your guard down.
Start your new generation healthy and raise in the way your child should go according to our Lord.
Deermousie's post says it loud and clear they are still a danger to you and your child.
It has been difficult on me and my son, but we did move out of state. The only time I went back is when my mother's disease advance.
We returned home on Dec.23rd and learned she died Dec. 25th
See the Lord will protect you in all ways, so really,really listen to Him in His direction.
He actually used a portion of my testimony that brought someone to forgiveness.
Forgiveness doesn't mean you allow them to manipulate, control your environment, but forgiving them for their actions so *He can heal your wounds, so you can move on and be the best momma you can to your child.
With the knowledge of what you should not be like, but with the knowledge of His love.
Blessings
CMT
_____________________________
formerly Delete 123
Never Underestimate the Power of God
Romans 8:28, Proverb 3:5
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RE: Pregnant and scared of how my father(& mother) will be - 3/10/2010 2:00:23 PM
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bella05
Posts: 44
Joined: 4/22/2008
Status: offline
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Wow, thank you so much! All of your advice is amazing.
To answer a few of your questions, my husband is onboard with me but I still think he doesn't fully understand the extent of what happened growing-up in my household. He came from a normal, loving family. They were great at encouraging and supporting him. So I don't think he can fathom what happened. When we see my parents every once in a while... they usually act okay. I know that anything can happen any moment. I know they'll never change. My husband sees them as socially awkward at times but not harmful. The only time he thought they were crazy was when they were screaming at me over the phone a couple years ago. And my mother called my husband's cellphone and left a horrible message on his voicemail saying how vindictive I am. All this over a private argument, well "supposed" to be private argument with my sister. My sister is really close with my mother so she tells her practically everything. My husband will stand-by me with whatever I decide to do but I don't think he views them as "dangerous". I plan to discuss things again with him soon.
I go to a very large church, about 5,000 members. The counselors are all professionals so I'm assuming that's why they charge.
I have to admit that I'm scared. I've been doing better with creating boundaries. I'm so afraid that my child will be their all-being. They don't have much going on in their lives. No hobbies, not a lot of friends and they stay home a lot. So I feel that this baby will be their everything. I know I have to tell them that it won't be that way. And I will do anything to protect my future baby, so will my husband. We're going to have to decide on how to handle this. I love the sayings that you all told me to say! I think that's what I need... what to say to them and how to approach them. And all of you are right, they will utterly lose it. They will insult me, blame me, tell me what a horrible person I am, will say I'm crazy to feel that they're a threat and that I was badly raised, etc. etc. I admit I'm scared. When they say and do those things, I feel helpless and beated-down. And then I think, well maybe they're not that bad? I know it sounds insane. But this is a lifelong battle. I'm trying to break free from years of manipulation, harassment, and abuse. My parents literally think they have done nothing wrong and say that they've done the "best" they could as parents. I'm like, what??? Are you serious? Abusing your child is the best you could have done?
I have to run, but will write more later. I'm so thankful for your responses. Blessings!
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RE: Pregnant and scared of how my father(& mother) will be - 3/10/2010 3:55:19 PM
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CMT8808
Posts: 820
Joined: 9/4/2009
Status: offline
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Bella~
I can so totally relate. My older sister is toxic in which I do not have a relationship with her. Even her children do not communicate with her which is sad.
This is why I mentioned about the Lord having a plan. My son and myself got to see my mother when she was alive, but did not go to the funeral, because my older sister was there and as usual made it about her.
I did not start boundaries with my mother and her husband until my first marriage and I too was scared, simply because I in the past allowed them to manipulate and control how I feel, etc...
The Lord is growing you up in this area.
I was still nervous when I set the boundaries with my son. I was 45 y/o, so stop and think about that!
At 45 y/o do you still want to feel apprehension, false guilt, and all the other emotions that go along with the abuse?
I had to stop and think of what I was afraid of: Fear of their rejection? Well they already rejected me
Not pleasing them? people like them can not be pleased, it will never be enough or good enough
These are things you should understand as painful as it may seem.
They rejected you,
mistreated you,
But our Lord
Loves you
Accepts you as His own
is your Father
Will protect you
Cares for you
Has your best interest at heart
and has blessed you with
your loving and protective husband
with a loving family that he has
that accepts you
loves you
and then blessed you with an opportunity
to change your life
with a child of your own
to experience unconditional love
learn patience
to experience a healthy childhood upbringing
and most important of all with all this process
to heal you from your past hurts
CMT
_____________________________
formerly Delete 123
Never Underestimate the Power of God
Romans 8:28, Proverb 3:5
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RE: Pregnant and scared of how my father(& mother) will be - 3/10/2010 4:05:48 PM
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deermousie
Posts: 2688
Joined: 9/26/2007
Status: offline
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I'm glad these posts are helping you, Bella. So many of us have been where you are now. It's not comfortable, but you can deal with it.
quote:
ORIGINAL: bella05
my husband is onboard with me but I still think he doesn't fully understand the extent of what happened growing-up in my household. He came from a normal, loving family. They were great at encouraging and supporting him. So I don't think he can fathom what happened. When we see my parents every once in a while... they usually act okay.
I had this same problem with my husband. It took a few years of seeing my mom insult/belittle/lie/character assassinate me in front of my impressionable toddler every time we were together, and several instances of putting our kid's life in danger right in front of him to see that I wasn't exaggerating. She was fine 90% of the time. So are bulls in fields that kill farmers.
Here's the turning point: you are scared (who wouldn't be?) and your husband's job is to protect his wife not only from harm but from fear of harm. Even if you were making this all up (and I don't believe for a minute you are, but people used to think I was because my claims of abuse were so severe, so you might get that, too - what you've suffered doesn't have to be validated by people who weren't there. They don't count. You were there - your words count. You aren't a liar, I'm sure) he needs to protect your needing to feel safe.
When you are pregnant, and then have a baby and are tired, he needs to be your shield from anything that is harmful or stressful to you, or what seems harmful and stressful to you. He might not see the harm (he will eventually) but he can hear you say, "I'm scared. I feel powerless and threatened. Please protect me so I can be free to take care of your baby." So whether he believes your parents are monsters (they sound just like mine) or not, he needs to stand between you and them and be a wall of protection. He's protecting your feelings as well as your welfare.
quote:
My husband sees them as socially awkward at times but not harmful.
He needs to protect his frightened wife from socially awkward parents, too, even if he doesn't get that they are crazy. He'll get evidence soon enough of who they really are.
quote:
My husband will stand-by me with whatever I decide to do but I don't think he views them as "dangerous". I plan to discuss things again with him soon.
Then ask him to "humor" you by protecting you from your parents "poor social skills"; he'll see the hissy fit dramatics when you fence them out and he'll get the whole picture then.
quote:
I have to admit that I'm scared. I've been doing better with creating boundaries. I'm so afraid that my child will be their all-being. They don't have much going on in their lives. No hobbies, not a lot of friends and they stay home a lot. So I feel that this baby will be their everything. I know I have to tell them that it won't be that way. And I will do anything to protect my future baby, so will my husband. We're going to have to decide on how to handle this.
I didn't become a raging "cut your dangerous parents off!" maniac overnight - it took time of being violated by hurt and damage over and over to make me rise up and say, "No more. Never again. Ever." You and your husband are already way ahead of where I was when I was pregnant and thinking my mom would finally love me and finally be good to me and my growing family. I'm a slow learner,  you aren't. You're going to do fine.
quote:
And all of you are right, they will utterly lose it. They will insult me, blame me, tell me what a horrible person I am, will say I'm crazy to feel that they're a threat and that I was badly raised, etc. etc.
This is where you (and your husband, more and more) turn into a Mama Grizzly Bear - you will meet any threat and any invasion decisively. You will suffer any buffeting without backing down on your protection of your child, you will put up with any screaming and threats and know them for the damaging things they are.
And if your parents break any laws (breaking and entering, vandalism on your house, assault and/or battery, disturbing of the peace, threats of any kind) call the police! The law comes from God that protects the innocent from being sinning against, so it's for you to use as needed.
You are serving notice that your parents' reign of terror is over. They can act like civilized human beings with you first before they get anywhere near that child.
quote:
I admit I'm scared. When they say and do those things, I feel helpless and beated-down. And then I think, well maybe they're not that bad? I know it sounds insane. But this is a lifelong battle. I'm trying to break free from years of manipulation, harassment, and abuse. My parents literally think they have done nothing wrong and say that they've done the "best" they could as parents. I'm like, what??? Are you serious? Abusing your child is the best you could have done?
Bella, you sound just like me.
Children of abusive parents are sometimes called "The Children of Silence." They don't speak of their pain or suffering, they've been told this is how families work, they've been overwhelmed by it while helpless dependents and they are trained to live with it and never reveal it. They desperately needed the parents' love and support while suffering under the hurts, and we haven't been trained to tell the difference between good and bad behavior. Our emotions think it's normal because it's all we've ever known.
I once told my violent, cold-hearted father I forgave him, and he said, "That's nice, but forgive me for what?" Unbelievable. He had no idea that there was any way to raise a family except to neglect and destroy them emotionally and physically with constant hurt and threats of hurt.
His lack of validation of me didn't mean I wasn't validated, it just meant he wasn't one of the people who recognized who I really was and what I was really worth. He died in that ignorance. Half a second later, he came face to face with the holy God of the universe who had chosen me to be His beloved child by dying for me. I can't imagine that was a comfortable time for my father.
Yes, your parents will rage. Let them, Mama Grizzly bears don't back down when protecting their cubs. You are a civilized person who protects herself from uncivilized people. You have boundaries. You have 911 on speed dial. You have a husband who will find a new aspect of his manliness in protecting his family from a threat.
"Sorry. Husband and I have decided this is in the best interests of our baby and family, so this is what we are going to do. I will talk to you later when you can be calm." And gently close the door or hang up the phone. Make it expensive for them to rant and rage, so they have a motivation to try to act civilized. It will be an act, but who knows, they might discover they like it.
God bless you and your husband and child, Bella. You have a new family, and it isn't being run like the family you came from. Yay! Your future is bright, and your child will grow up in a loving and sane family. What a concept! (and your parents have no clue. That won't stop you).
Standing up to your parents looks scary, but soon you'll see that the boundaries you draw will be your protection. I've found the best way to stand up to someone who hammers at me is to repeat the boundary:
"Sorry, we don't do that. Sorry, we don't allow that around our baby. Sorry, you'll have to leave now (I'm calling the police if needed)."
It could look like this:
Them: Let me in the house now. I have to see my grandchild.
You: Sorry, we've decided to have no visitors yet.
Them: You have to let me in! Are you crazy? Stand aside. Where's the baby?
You: Sorry, we've decided to have no visitors yet, and I have to ask you to leave the property.
Them: What? How dare you? Where did you get this nonsense? I can do whatever I want, and I want in your house. Now! <starts to push their way in>
You: <closing and locking the door> (through the door) I'm calling the police. Please leave now.
Them: You're a terrible daughter. How can you do this to us. I'm really mad - open this door now or I'll break it down!
You: The police will be here shortly.
Them: That's the craziest thing I've ever heard. You always were a bad child. I'm going to tell everyone you locked us out and are keeping us from our grandchild. You haven't heard the last of this.
And if they do break any laws, document it and get a restraining order. That piece of paper won't keep them from breaking any more laws, but it will be the basis of throwing them in jail for violating it.
They need to know their "authority" over you no longer exists. Only the police and your husband have authority over you. They can be nice or they can be out. Their choice.
God bless you. This could be the start of a whole new relationship with your parents (but don't plan on it).
_____________________________
People died to give you the Bible in your language.
Read it. Eat it. Dwell in it. Rightly divide it. Live it.
Laugh, dance, praise your God, and go read some more. And God bless you.
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RE: Pregnant and scared of how my father(& mother) will be - 3/10/2010 4:38:33 PM
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CoeurdeLeon
Posts: 4308
Joined: 12/30/2007
From: Inside my head
Status: offline
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quote:
I don't know what to do. Talking to him about this scares me because he never has any regard for my feelings and he'll turn this around on me. I'm scared he'll smother my future child and just cry and cry. It's all about "him" right now. He's going to be a grandfather, he's so happy, he, he, he. You think I would be more frightened about the delivery but I'm more scared on how my father will react when my parents come to the hospital to visit. I don't know how intrusive they'll be. They might want to see the baby once or twice a month, maybe more. And that means me seeing more of him. I'm afraid they'll be overbearing and not respect how I discipline our child. I already mentioned to my mother that I might need sometime alone with my husband and the baby in the hospital. She asked angrily, "Well, how much time?" Then she said, "One or 2 hours is enough time and then we'll be there." I changed the subject.
I literally think my father has borderline personality disorder. He has all the symptoms. He's too prideful to get help. My mother I feel has some of my fathers characteristics. I think she just got used to how he is and became more like him.
Bella, do some research on Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Not just clinical stuff but what people who've dealt with narcissists write, there are several very informative blogs online. You may find them enlightening.
Congratulations on two things...the upcoming birth of your child and for marrying someone who sounds very unlike your parents. That's no small feat.
_____________________________
I will admit that the Lion is, in general, weird.
~Kerrlaw~
An original female member of our (mine & Cranky's) Diogenes Club.
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RE: Pregnant and scared of how my father(& mother) will be - 3/10/2010 5:06:00 PM
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crankius
Posts: 3362
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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Please keep in mind that normal people understand and respect boundaries, and normal people hate to intrude or interfere.
Here are some guidelines you and your husband might have:
-they must call first before visiting (no just dropping by unannounced)
-they can visit when you and your husband are there (until or unless you feel comfortable without your husband being present, but given what you have explained, I would always want my husband there)
-when they try to make plans with you, say, "That might work. We'll check our schedules and get back to you." This gives you and your husband time to discuss the plans without pressure, and it keeps either one of you from being cornered into making plans without the input of each other.
-visits are kept to a time frame you can handle, like over lunch, or for dinner...something finite. And sometimes neutral territory works well, like a park or restaurant, because you can decide when you've had enough and say "We've got to go now. It's been nice!" 
-you as the mom and dad decide the baby's schedule (sleeping, eating, quiet time, etc.). Don't let family intrude or dictate those things.
-if someone is holding your baby for too long and you have that mommy instinct to rescue your baby, even if you are being a silly mom, take the baby back.
You don't really have to explain anything to them. You and your husband just need to be firm and smile a lot and stand strong together. With people you trust, you don't have to be so firm, but your parents are not people you can trust.
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
God's Attributes
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RE: Pregnant and scared of how my father(& mother) will be - 3/10/2010 7:50:16 PM
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rgod
Posts: 2193
Joined: 4/25/2005
Status: offline
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Bella,
I think that you've gotten some excellent advice here, so I can't add anything more. But I have to tell you that I admire how you've been handling this really difficult situation. For you to have been in an atmosphere of abuse for your entire life, then to be able to recognize that it was wrong, then to have the courage to face it and get counseling, then to apply what you've learned and set boundaries for yourself, then to be able to recognize and choose a healthy spouse, then to set boundaries between your parents and your married life, then for you to not be manipulated by the current "adulation" from your dad, then for you to be able to start thinking and planning how you will handle boundaries before the baby arrives, then you to admit that you are afraid and to continue to seek advice instead of pushing it under the rug -- all of this speaks volumes to about your maturity, growth, emotional health, and God's Hand in your life. I'm not saying that everything is perfect or that there are not issues to deal with, but these are huge, huge, huge, huge steps. You are no longer a girl that is helpless in the face of your father's mental illness. You have demonstrated that you are grown woman who can set boundaries, who can get the help she needs, who can stand up to her parents, and who is acting as a rational adult in the face of irrationality. Because of this and your track record in this area - plus your desire to set boundaries - I have absolutely no doubt that you will be able to set boundaries with your parents concerning your child. It might be scary and hard in some ways and it might take multiple attempts. But with God's help, you and your husband will be able to do it and you are going to do an excellent job of protecting your child from this. You've just come too far and it is evident that God is with you, with your husband, and with your child.
Anyway - that's all I wanted to say. Congratulations on the baby and I know that there are many that will be praying for you.
rgod
< Message edited by rgod -- 3/10/2010 7:57:20 PM >
_____________________________
The Way Out Is In
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RE: Pregnant and scared of how my father(& mother) will be - 3/10/2010 8:08:37 PM
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manda59
Posts: 7689
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bella05
I love the sayings that you all told me to say! I think that's what I need... what to say to them and how to approach them. And all of you are right, they will utterly lose it. They will insult me, blame me, tell me what a horrible person I am, will say I'm crazy to feel that they're a threat and that I was badly raised, etc. etc. I admit I'm scared. When they say and do those things, I feel helpless and beated-down.
You can choose not to even let them get that far. As soon as the first insult/blame/guilt-trip starts, you can nip it in the bud, and say firmly but calmly, "I'm not prepared to listen to this. Either stop the nastiness or I will be ending this conversation " and then if it continues, leave/put the phone down. Another thing to say (which I have had to use with my mum) is "I am not going to allow you to make me feel guilty/bad over this".
quote:
And then I think, well maybe they're not that bad? I know it sounds insane. But this is a lifelong battle. I'm trying to break free from years of manipulation, harassment, and abuse. My parents literally think they have done nothing wrong and say that they've done the "best" they could as parents. I'm like, what??? Are you serious? Abusing your child is the best you could have done?
bella, here is the full/accurate version of what they said: they did the best they could with what they had, but they didn't have enough, and what they did wasn't good enough.
You don't exist to meet their needs, and your baby doesn't either. Their moods are not your responsibility. It is not up to you to try and placate them, and prevent an argument - their moods/emotions are THEIR responsibility, and it is not up to you to "keep the peace" at all costs. They are responsible for themselves; do not allow them to try and make you feel like *you* are responsible for them, because you are NOT!
_____________________________
"Manda – I can often skip posting 'cause she's got it covered!", sen10tious, July 2010
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RE: Pregnant and scared of how my father(& mother) will be - 3/11/2010 12:10:29 AM
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bolt.
Posts: 2385
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: Canada
Status: offline
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quote:
. And all of you are right, they will utterly lose it. They will insult me, blame me, tell me what a horrible person I am, will say I'm crazy to feel that they're a threat and that I was badly raised, etc. etc. I admit I'm scared. When they say and do those things, I feel helpless and beated-down. And then I think, well maybe they're not that bad? I know it sounds insane. But this is a lifelong battle. I'm trying to break free from years of manipulation, harassment, and abuse.
Manda stole my answer. But I'm going to say it in my own words anyways.
They really can only do one of these things, not all of them. Because as soon as they do one of them, you leave and/or hang up the phone.
The bottom line is that you decide who you and the baby spend time with, and you decide who you talk to and listen to, and for how long. They can talk. That's their choice. Your choice is to decide how far away from them you will be while they are talking.
_____________________________
Are you having trouble getting your daily dose of the life changing Word of God?
Let my friend Brian at Daily Audio Bible help you too.
>>audio link<<
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RE: Pregnant and scared of how my father(& mother) will be - 3/11/2010 7:40:54 AM
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buckifn
Posts: 1649
Joined: 5/23/2006
Status: offline
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Time and distance can be the best healers. I would put as much time and distance between yourself and your toxic parent's as possible.
As your baby grows older you are going to appreciate the distance more and more.
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RE: Pregnant and scared of how my father(& mother) will be - 3/12/2010 11:20:31 AM
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Simway
Posts: 258
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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Do set boundaries, and stick to them. Also time and distance is good. Above all protect yourself, and your bady, and husband. I know it hurts not to have a good close relationship with your parents. But it seems they are making no effort to make any chnages in the lives. Pray your way along the way, and let God lead you each step.
Simway
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RE: Pregnant and scared of how my father(& mother) will be - 3/12/2010 6:08:23 PM
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bella05
Posts: 44
Joined: 4/22/2008
Status: offline
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All of what you said is wonderful. Thank you for the encouragement! I guess I did come a long way but still have some ways to go. Setting boundaries is difficult. I slipped up a couple of times but I'm trying to recognize their irrational behavior right away. I used to wait too long where the abuse just continued and continued, again because I thought it was normal and I knew they would get even more angry if I left or hung-up the phone. With prayer and encouragement from others, I know I'll get it right soon.
My parents live just under 2 hours away. So it won't be easy for them to pop-in a lot, which is great. Right now we see them every 2 to 3 months and keep things short like seeing them for only 1/2 a day or something. I like to keep it that way. I know if things get too comfortable or if I stay longer, they're bound to say something thats inappropriate.
My husband and I talked the other night. We decided not to tell them when we're in labor and definitely no babysitting. I might go to a couple more counseling sessions before the baby is born. I'm actually going to print out what all of you wrote and take notes. I'm so grateful for your advice!
Okay, I have to see my parents in one month because my mother and sister are hosting a baby shower. It is at a restaurant and all of my aunts, cousins, etc. will be there. I'm not worried about the baby shower. What I am worried about is seeing my father, where he will be overemotional, wanting to touch my belly all the time, and maybe he'll say something that's out of line. Out of line in the sense that he'll say something super mushy and awkward. Right now he's in his "intense adulation state" because he's going to be a grandfather. He'll probably get teary eyed, choked-up, and say things like..."I love you so much (with his voice cracking)" and the continued, "I'm so happy, bare with my sappiness". I don't want to bare with his sappiness! I'll see him right before and maybe after the shower. My husband will be there which is a relief. I'm 6 months pregnant and I want to be calm and not stressed.
But for some reason, I feel guilty for the fact that I want to push my father's hand away from my stomach or move if he tries to give me a smothering bear hug. I feel guilty, uncomfortable, and anxious. Sometimes I have sayings and plans prepared just incase they say or do something that's not welcomed. I'm all good to go and then I get nervous, put my head down and then I'm lost for words. When my parents are decent and okay at times, I think to myself maybe I'm analyzing this too much or they're really not that bad. But at the same time, I'm always on guard when I'm with them. It's confusing. I guess I need to hear that it's okay to push my father's hand away from my pregnant belly. I think I'm scared of the outcome if I do that. He'll become angry and won't understand why he can't put his hand on my stomach. He'll be the grandfather, he has a right. Just like they told me before (word for word) that they have every right to get involved when my sister and I had an argument because they are parents. They said before that they're being "caring parents".
With my mother, the only thing that I'm worried about is that when she's really happy or with a group of people she'll say something inappropriate. It's like she gets so excited and can't control herself. Before when my husband and I were married for only 1 year and 1/2, my mother bombarded me about having children. This is why I'm scared on how she'll be with my baby. For example, infront of other people she loudly said, "When are you having a baby?, You can't wait too long, you're almost 30, Just have the baby already, I want to be a grandmother", etc. She was unloving about it and pushy. I finally called her up after awhile and told her to stop.
I need to have more respect for myself... maybe I feel guilty because they'll be the grandparents. And grandparents are supposed to spoil their grandchildren and be involved. But I know it's not a "right" for them to do these things. I know my parents view it as a right no matter how they behave. I'll do what all of you said before. And I'm okay with them not being the main grandparents. If I try to implement boundaries though, they'll say I'm the crazy one and that I'm a cold-hearted person. They'll never understand how they hurt me in the past and even recently. I wish it were easy to just be strong and stand-up for myself. I don't want them to have a hold over me.
I will try to be as straight forward as possible when I see them next month. So as soon as my father says something that's uncomfortable or mushy, I'll say, "I feel stressed when you can't control your emotions". Right? And I'll say this as soon as he does or says something? No waiting?
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