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RE: MARRIAGE - 7/1/2010 1:37:01 PM
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jn1010lf
Posts: 703
Joined: 4/20/2005
Status: online
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Hello vvalen
I think you need to ask the question, "Does God want you to live under such legalism?" I don't think He does. So, I don't believe that any wife should accept being treated this way. While God wants wives to submit to their husbands in the Lord, He certainly doesn't want them to downtrodden with unrealistic demands.
My words on this forum are admittedly to the point. But I feel that your husband has a real problem. Such demands, if they are accurate, portrays an attitude that you are his property. No woman should live under that. So you may have to be humbly stern on this.
I would need to duck for cover if I treated my wife this way. Rightly so.
Now, I think we also need to consider your dress. We only have your viewpoint on this. You may be right all the way but might ask if your dress calls undue attention to yourself. And what about body language? Does it suggest certain attitudes?
Well, those are my opinions. I hope the Lord blesses you and your husband so that this issue will cool down.
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RE: MARRIAGE - 7/1/2010 3:35:42 PM
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bolt.
Posts: 2317
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: Canada
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quote:
So in other words you are saying that I should dress the way he wants to me to dress whether it is comfortable for me or not?
You are right we all have choices. And yes I guess I would rather not smile to avoid the grief. And the reason for that is because he does not care who is listening, co-workers or not. The only time he will not say much in front of people is when our family is around. He will wait until they are gone and then he will blast me.
I do kindly tell him I tell him don't yell at me I am right here. Or I will simply just listen til he is done. And he will still tell me stuff. While he yelling and telling me things I am praying to God to please calm him down.
I did not mean to imply that you should 'dress the way he wants to you to dress whether it is comfortable for you or not' -- I was just saying that that you have completely open options regarding how you choose to respond to his requests. I'm not going to say that your only option is to dress how you like best, no matter how your husband feels about it. You have both options.
The first VERY BIG step in making this situation different is realizing that you have the choice -- that you have always had the choice -- and that it is YOU that is choosing compliance with his urealistic demands.
And the reason you are choosing that is because your husband is threatening you.
He is threatening to punish you emotionally for making reasonable choices
quote:
"go" and then pushish me emotionally for going.
He is threatening to interrogate you
quote:
He will give me the 3rd degree about what was said what I wore who was there. Was I ever alone in the same room as my bro-in law. quote:
he wants to know who they are and what was I laughing about.
He is threatening you with public humiliation
quote:
he does not care who is listening, co-workers or not.
He is threatening you with the idea that he would have a sort of 'evidence' that you are ungodly and seeking the sexual attention of other men.
quote:
what I wore who was there. Was I ever alone in the same room as my bro-in law quote:
accusses me of having someone else... who am I dressing like that for
He is threatening you with the idea that he would have a sort of 'evidence' that you are ungodly and not a good and loving wife to him.
quote:
He said go! But I was hoping that could not be without me and that you would not want to go.
He is threatening you with loud and intimidating verbal assaults
quote:
he will blast me
He is threatening you with property damage and a physically dangerous and chaotic environment in your home
quote:
throw things or slam doors or break something.
He is threatening you with his physical strenght, size and potential for violence
quote:
push me with his shoulder or body
He is threatening you with refusing to behave kindly towards you
quote:
gives me the cold shoulder
He is supressing your personal identity
quote:
But he won't let me be me quote:
"you are not you and I don't even know who you are anymore" quote:
she says I have changed so much they don't know me anymore... I have changed and I realized that she is right. I am not me anymore.
It is clear that his threats terrify you. (They even frighten your family.) That's completely normal -- these threats would terrify anyone. He has taught you that his threats are real, and that he will follow through with them, and you believe him (which is probably smart). That's the real reason you don't want to fight about stuff that doesn't seem to matter. It's a very effective tactic for an abusive spouse to use to establish control over their target -- to start with establishing iron control over the things that 'don't matter' and 'aren't worth fighting over' -- then when he tells you where you can and can not go, who you can and can not see, and asserts more and more control over you, you remember, 'there's no point in fighting back'.
And there is no point in 'fighting back' -- you don't want to stand and shout with an abusive man. What you need to do is tell him no, remain calm as long as he remains reasonable and/or until he sins against you... then tell him that you will not allow him to sin against you, and go somewhere else for a while (or even overnight). I can give you a detailed Scriptural plan for that process if you want it. (Please just say so, and I will post it, but I don't want to offer you unwelcome counsel.)
laura has the right idea here:
quote:
Go visit your sister. While you are there call a domestic violence shelter and ask for a counseling appointment to evaluate just how much danger you may be in.
Lastly, regarding prayer...
God never has, and never will, interfere with one person's ability to sin against another. He will not put his finger into your husband's head, stir things around a bit and make him stop treating you with cruelty, contempt and control. God will not make your husband calm down. It's just something God doesn't do, because He respects each person's ability and freedom to choose evil.
Instead of praying that God will control your husband, you need to make choices (in His power and courage) about what you are going to do. That's going to be a lot harder in some ways than just begging God to make it all stop has been. On the other hand, in some ways taking action will be easier than living with this abuse.
_____________________________
Are you having trouble getting your daily dose of the life changing Word of God?
Let my friend Brian at Daily Audio Bible help you too.
>>audio link<<
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RE: MARRIAGE - 7/1/2010 3:50:50 PM
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laura...
Posts: 3362
Joined: 3/1/2005
From: NE Ohio
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Bolt, Very well written.
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Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith... ...so that you will not grow weary and lose heart. Hebrew 12:3-4
Follow me on Twitter: MrsLalaD
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RE: MARRIAGE - 7/1/2010 5:30:33 PM
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JUSTWANTTOBEME
Posts: 14
Joined: 6/30/2010
Status: offline
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Wow! I never realized that my problem was as severe as looks in writting. I just thought I was a bad wife by feeling like he was being unfair with me. And yes I am trying to be the submissive wife that the word talks about. I try to be as humble as I possibly can. That is why my family is so upset at me. I try to give him his place as the man of the house. He tells me that I need to take care of him not by feeding him or washing or ironing or whatever he wants me to not be where ever there any men. I can't help that they are all over!!! In the store, at work, driving in the next car.
Now as far as my dress is concerned how can I explain it you. If I buy something my size it's too tight or too sexy. I just look for normal clothes that fit me the way they are suppose to. I don't buy stuff that show my breasts' from being too low cut. I am to old for that. Just nice decent clothes are fine for me. I don't mini skirts. Knee lenght is fine for me actually more comforable.
I don't walk around like a peacock. It's not because I want another males attention. I just want to be normal. The other day the mail man came in to work to drop off the mail I was sitting at my desk working and the mail man said Good Morning and I respond the same. Then he said I like you hair it is so pretty. Very pretty! After he left my husband came to the window and asked me what was all that about?! I told him I don't know he never says anything more that Good Morning. Well, my husband wanted to know why all of sudden he told me he liked my hair. How do I respond to that. I do not ever look at the man when he comes in. I just reply to his salutation.
I really appreciate your straight and to the point advise. I also realize that there are always two sides to every story. That day of the mail man he was upset at me all day. My office manager said that he was wrong I asked what did I do wrong. She said nothing. That the kind of stuff I have to put up with every day. Every day.
Thank you again.
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RE: MARRIAGE - 7/1/2010 5:33:58 PM
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JUSTWANTTOBEME
Posts: 14
Joined: 6/30/2010
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I kind of got use to wearing blouses that look like maternity and so long they have to cover my rear end or else. Yes, I do have family I can stay with. I can't wear any kind of lotion, hair spray, or use soap that has a pretty smell or that has any scent to it either.
Thank you.
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RE: MARRIAGE - 7/1/2010 5:41:40 PM
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JUSTWANTTOBEME
Posts: 14
Joined: 6/30/2010
Status: offline
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Yes, I would like the scriptural plan you mentioned.
Thank you,
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RE: MARRIAGE - 7/1/2010 6:28:08 PM
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CMT8808
Posts: 907
Joined: 9/4/2009
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Justwant~
Can I ask did you received counselling after your first abusive marriage?
It seems you keep falling into the same pattern is why I ask.
Everyone is correct in stating that your present relationship/marriage is abusive.
It was almost a dejavu moment for me as my first marriage was similar.
I was questioned on everything and also timed when I had to run errands and give an account <groan>
It got to a point that when I looked in the mirror, I didn't know who I was anymore. All friendships and families were severed by him. Several times I almost got fired from work for his constant calling.
I've been where you are at except thankfully we did not have children, so it was easy for me to walk away.
It took a long time before I could or would trust a man to have any type of relationship with.
If you did not receive counselling with your first abusive experience, you should consider it now since you seem to be in another abusive cycle that you consider tolerable.
That is a dangerous place to be.... considering anything abusive towards you or your children should be intolerable and your priority to see that you and them (the children) are out of harms way.
You are suppose to Let Your light shine before all men! Not be with someone who keeps trying to put it out and hide it.
CMT
_____________________________
formerly Delete 123
Never Underestimate the Power of God
Romans 8:28, Proverb 3:5
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RE: MARRIAGE - 7/1/2010 11:04:29 PM
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bolt.
Posts: 2317
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: Canada
Status: offline
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quote:
I just thought I was a bad wife by feeling like he was being unfair with me.
That's the way he seems to want you to think of yourself.
quote:
I am trying to be the submissive wife that the word talks about. I try to be as humble as I possibly can.
The meaning of submission is (1) to take shelter under the strength of another person, and (2) to yield your desires and your life for the good of another person.
There is nothing in that that consists of being obedient to whims that are not beneficial to your the other person. The Bible instructs you (and your husband) to submit to all other Christians -- to take shelter under their strength, and to yield our desires and our lives for their good. This is the right way for a Christian to be with everyone... but can you imagine obeying every person's whims and commands the way you do your husband's. It would be crazy.
The meaning of humility is to resist the temptation to exalt ourselves above others. I see nothing in your posts that would indicate that you would want to exalt yourself above your husband. Humility does not involve pretending not to be a person.
quote:
I try to give him his place as the man of the house.
Men in the Roman empire had a legally mandated position of authority over their wives. The Bible does acknowledge that fact of the laws existing at the time it was written. Those laws do not apply to your marriage. Therefore, your husband has no particular 'place' simply because he is a man who lives in a house.
Your husband is a bully -- nothing more.
quote:
he wants me to not be where ever there any men.
This desire is unreasonable and impossible.
quote:
I don't walk around like a peacock. It's not because I want another males attention. I just want to be normal.
This is perfectly reasonable. You are free to choose an ordinary style of fashion if that is what you prefer.
quote:
It's not because I want another males attention.
Most Christian women don't. Trying to seduce men is a sin. Every time your husband implies that you do, he is insulting your character and accusing you of a sin without any grounds for the accusation.
quote:
Well, my husband wanted to know why all of sudden he told me he liked my hair. How do I respond to that.
You respond by asking your husband why he would think you are capable of reading other people's thoughts. If your husband wants to know what the mailman is thinking, it's only logical that he should ask the mailman.
quote:
I can't wear any kind of lotion, hair spray, or use soap that has a pretty smell or that has any scent to it either.
No - what you have typed here is not true.
The truth is that you can wear lotion, but you choose not to because your husband threatens you. You can use hair spray, but you choose not to because your husband threatens you. You can use scented soap, but you choose not to because your husband threatens you.
... I'll put the Matthew 18 plan for spousal sin up in a post by itself next.
_____________________________
Are you having trouble getting your daily dose of the life changing Word of God?
Let my friend Brian at Daily Audio Bible help you too.
>>audio link<<
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RE: MARRIAGE - 7/1/2010 11:33:05 PM
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bolt.
Posts: 2317
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: Canada
Status: offline
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OK, I'll take you through this one step at a time.
1. You are friendly with a man, or you choose some new clothes, or something with scent. Your husband begins to ask you pointed questions about it. Your response: sympathy. You know that his idea (that you are trying to be sexually attractive to men) is nowhere near the truth – so, obviously, and starting a, "No I'm not!" argument is pointless. What he needs to hear is, "Wow, this is really one of those upsetting situations for you. I know I’m lovely to you and you would like to protect me from men’s attentions.”
Sometimes this works. Sometimes you proceed to step 2.
2. He responds by trying to make it your issue, telling you that you are clearly ignoring his restrictions and you must be doing it to attract other men. Your response: sympathy again. "You must be really angry to be thinking those things. I wish you weren't having such a hard time. I know you really do think that what you are saying is true, and I can see why that would upset you. A married woman my age trying to seduce every man she sees is a disgusting idea, and you really do think you are married to a woman like that. I can't imagine how upset that would make you."
Sometimes this works and he says, "You mean you’re not trying to get his attention?" and you say, "This fine lady only has eyes for you. What would I want with anybody else?" Sometimes you proceed to step 3.
3. He begins to call you names, yell and become aggressive. Your response: clarity say, "I really do understand why you are so upset. A woman who actually does what you think I'm doing really is all those things. But I'm not looking out to seduce men, and I think my choices are entirely appropriate and godly. I want to help you deal with the way you are feeling. I'm beginning to think there is nothing I can do."
4. The next step is a boundary, "If there is nothing I can do, I don't think it is doing either of us any good to stand and argue. I love you, and what you are doing is hurting both of us. I need to stop this argument, and I'm going to do it by going for a walk or a drive alone for an hour or two. I need the space. Please don't follow me. If this situation/article of clothing really needs talking about, we can talk at home tonight, OK?" Then you do walk away. You do not respond to his shouts and do not answer his phone calls, unless they are apologies. If he apologizes, you freely forgive, but you still go out for as long as you said you would. You need the space after an incident like this.
Sometimes this works, you get your space, and you have a conversation later. Sometimes you proceed to step 5.
5. He follows you, either to apologize or to continue to harass you. If he apologizes, freely forgive him, but let him know you still need to spend some time alone to recover from his cruelty and pray for your marriage. If sh continues to harass you, your response is confrontation: "My love, what you are doing is unkind. It is a sin. When you are cruel in your words and refuse to allow me to be alone when I have asked you to you are sinning because you are ignoring what God tells you in the Bible about how to treat other people. There is no one in the world that you are allowed to treat this way. You need to stop right now, and find some where else to be for a few hours. We will work this out, but I need it to stop before anything else can happen. I will not tolerate you sinning against me."
Sometimes this works and he fumes off somewhere else. Sometimes he becomes further enraged.
6. At this point you need to take your children (if any) and go somewhere else. Take a taxi or a bus if necessary, or walk to a public place. As you leave, if you can, say something like, "I love you, and I want to work this out. Your rage is hurting our marriage. We can talk when you feel differently." (Do not answer his calls if you have a cell phone.) While you are out, try to occupy yourself -- don't spend the time trying to figure out why you are being abused, or what to do about it. There are better times for that -- calm times.
Because you might need to do this at any time, you (and any children) need to start wearing sturdy slippers or indoor shoes at all times, and you need to keep your car keys in your pocket (or under your pillow) and your purse on the door knob, ready for a quick no-fuss exit.
7. After a few hours, call him and ask him if he is in a better frame of mind now, because you would like to come home. If he rages, you will need to spend the night at a motel. (Always have an overnight bag and some money in case this happens. In your case, I reccomed having important documents (at least copies) in that bag too becasue you might not be to scared to go back there after his reaction to you having spent a night away.)
Sometimes this will result in an apology. If so, be firm that being sorry about this sort of thing involves seeking help so that it doesn't continue to happen. Make a real, workable plan before you go back... counselling is important in this plan.
Sometimes it will result in a separation. You need to be prepared for that before you start any kind of plan. There is always a possibility that he will unrepentantly choose to continue sinning against you -- in that case, separation is right and Biblical.
8. If you have not already, you need to find a moment to confront him ‘alone’ telling him that his choices are sins against you, and that you want them to stop (as per step 5). You can do this over the phone, even if he is raging -- but it must be done, or any separation is unbiblical. After that, you need to continue to follow Jesus' commands in Matthew 18 regarding what to do if someone sins against you. That means confronting him with one or two other Christians with you (and with any children safely somewhere else), and involving them in actions that might bring him to repentance. (This can be done while you are staying somewhere else, but it is best to do it face-to-face, if that would be safe.) These other people can be Church leaders or any Christian, but family members would be an unwise choice.
Sometimes people respond to this and he might seek help in resisting the temptation to control and rage at you, and also help with his basic insecurities. The Church should help with this, and you should consider whether or not you trust him enough to live together with him again while he learns the skills he needs to resist this set of temptations -- that's your call, but don’t trust without good evidence.
Sometimes you need to proceed to step 9.
9. Tell it to the Church: Let them know that he is continually sinning against you, what the sins are, that you have confronted him (with witnesses) and that he refuses to repent and do whatever it takes for him to completely abandon these sins. You can do this in front of the congregation, or it might depend on how your Church is lead. (The Church may or may not do something about your report.) At that point you are free to be separated from her on a semi-permanent basis, with the full support of the Bible, until or unless s he repents and regains your trust.
10. Long term separation: That means you live single, but remain fully faithful to your husband. You forgive him, and continue to try to be at least somewhat open to reconciliation -- but the ball is in his court, to seek you and try to prove himself to you. You would register your separation legally, however that is done in your state.
(If you plan to start on this road, you need to be prepared to treat his sin seriously, even to the point of separation. You should have an 'emergency plan' that involves how you might leave, what you would need, where you would go, how you would pay for a short or medium term separation, and what your life would look like on a long term separation. There is no other Biblical way to really face the reality of what he is doing to your marriage.)
Also, if this stops short at any time, like you only do steps 1-3, or something, you need to figure out whether you have been sinned against. If you have, choose a calm moment when you are alone and say, "My love, when you said/did <whatever> you sinned against me. {Either tell him the name of the sin, or the passage of Scripture that was disobeyed.} If forgive you. I do. Absolutely -- but you needed to know that it was a sin, and that it is not OK."
If you need a list of tips for leaving, and the things to bring with you and/or keep on hand that you will need for a separation, we can help you with that too.
_____________________________
Are you having trouble getting your daily dose of the life changing Word of God?
Let my friend Brian at Daily Audio Bible help you too.
>>audio link<<
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RE: MARRIAGE - 7/5/2010 8:56:07 PM
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theprincessbuttercup
Posts: 2294
Joined: 3/23/2010
From: Boo Radley's back yard
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Bolt, this is EXCELLENT. It should be published somewhere.
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(My avatar is my daughter's artwork!)
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RE: MARRIAGE - 7/5/2010 9:01:27 PM
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bolt.
Posts: 2317
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: Canada
Status: offline
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It's published here... more than once.
_____________________________
Are you having trouble getting your daily dose of the life changing Word of God?
Let my friend Brian at Daily Audio Bible help you too.
>>audio link<<
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RE: MARRIAGE - 7/6/2010 7:44:00 AM
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deermousie
Posts: 2738
Joined: 9/26/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JUSTWANTTOBEME
When we argue he does get violent but will throw things or slam doors or breaksomething. If we happen to cross paths he will just push me with his shoulder or body but has not hit me.
This is abusive behavior. ^^^ This is violence. This is wrong. It is the opposite of what God tells men to be like: they are to love their wives like Christ loved the Church and died for her (total self-sacrifice). Eph. 5:25
quote:
He does have a bad temper and do get afraid. My stomach starts to shake and my mouth dries up really bad. I do get scared. I was in an abusive realationship with my childrens father for 22 yrs he did hit but this one has not. Thank you for you help.
If you are afraid, I suggest you leave. There are places for battered women that only the authorities know where they are so men can't find them, so call the police and ask.
Men who terrify their wives are playing a power game, and it's not unusual for them to escalate in violence over time. If you allow this man to frighten you and you don't do anything but cower, he may get worse. It's not your fault, but this isn't healthy living and it's not a good marriage. A social worker can help you, the police can help you, you can get a restraining order from a judge that will help you. Please take steps; men like this can be this bad because their victims are passive. Don't you be passive.
Get your important papers together, some clothes, your address book and photographs, and leave. You can always go back again later.
And if you do leave, expect him to cry and beg you to please come back and he'll be good to you. He will, for a few days, and then the violence will start up all over again. To prevent this, you insist that he get counseling and anger management (most guys like him refuse or go to counseling one time or until their wives come back and then stop) for several months (personally I'd insist on a couple years; they have a major sin problem and when they manipulate and lie they can't keep it up for long. So if you see good behavior 1-2 years, it's probably real and not an act to get you back so he can start up the bad stuff again).
You are an abused wife and may be on your way to becoming a battered wife. Please tell someone - your pastor or the police. Get out of the house if you need to. I am praying for you today. (((((HUgs)))))
_____________________________
People died to give you the Bible in your language.
Read it. Eat it. Dwell in it. Rightly divide it. Live it.
Laugh, dance, praise your God, and go read some more. And God bless you.
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RE: MARRIAGE - 7/6/2010 3:22:33 PM
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StillHoping
Posts: 14
Joined: 7/6/2010
Status: offline
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quote:
Please take steps; men like this can be this bad because their victims are passive. Don't you be passive.
I'm new to posting here, though I have read the boards for months. I'm not sure if this is diverting from the subject too much, but Deermousie's wonderful response got me thinking....
What does not being passive look like? Is leaving the only option? Wouldn't standing up for oneself make the abuser more angry? Is staying quiet while the abuser is upset passive or wise?
JustWantToBeMe, Thanks for posting your question. I've learned alot and pondered alot because of your post.
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