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Novelist Anne Rice Leaves "Christianity" - 7/29/2010 10:49:43 PM
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ta_mosquito
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I put "Christianity" in quotes because, from the article, it appears she's more leaving the Catholic Church than Christ Himself. However, she's leaving because she's against some of its social doctrines - including the big two: homosexuality and abortion.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100730/ap_on_en_ot/us_books_anne_rice
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RE: Novelist Anne Rice Leaves "Christianity" - 7/29/2010 11:22:26 PM
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gralan
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"In the name of ... Christ, I quit Christianity and being Christian. Amen."
To reject being a Christian and Christianity pretty much says it all.
God does not call us to live our own little monk's life separated from the Body of Christ. If it is too difficult for us to distinguish new creations in our churches, perhaps we need to question our own fidelity in Christ.
Anne Rice is one individual. The fact that she is making statements like this is not surprising. The fact that it is news should surprise us. There are many who are new believers who are confused, and many who claim to be Christians who deists or unitarians or mormons, or such like that.
I read as much as I could of her book on Christ, and had to put it back on the library shelves (public). I'd rather read her other fiction on vampires, than her fiction about Jesus. There's enough fiction about Jesus going around. The implication I got from reading the book was that this was presented as more than fiction.
I found Malcolm Muggeridge's testimony more believable, but since when is that an indicator of reality.
I know that if a person is a new creation that new life has begun.
We are not made perfect in our knowledge or practice by becoming spiritually alive. I cannot judge anyone's position with God, but I can make some sound judgments that have nothing to do with that... and we are called to as believers.
I will hope that she doesn't go the route of Cat Stevens or Bob Dylan and others... thinking of well-known celebs. It must be really hard to be a superstar and have to humble oneself.
I'm finding it hard to do and I'm a nobody. Its even harder to do if you are not actually a new creation.
< Message edited by gralan -- 7/30/2010 12:10:42 PM >
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RE: Novelist Anne Rice Leaves "Christianity" - 7/30/2010 1:08:04 AM
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rgod
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I agree ta_mosquito - it doesn't sound like she's leaving Christianity. But to me it doesn't even sound like she's leaving Catholicism specifically. Nor does it seem like she's having issues with humbling herself (although I guess most of us have that). It sounds like somewhere along the line, people made her feel that in order to be Christian, she had to hold conservative positions. And I think also that she might be tired of some of the hypocrisy, particularly when it comes to love, in the church at large. If you grow up with this, it is easier to stomach. But when you come to the Lord later in life, it can be very difficult to understand the inconsistency between those who talk about love, but in practice do not even remotely try love - even though the Bible clearly teaches us to forgive. (That's not everyone, only some. Yet many of us - including myself - do nothing about it when we see it happening except shake our heads from the side lines.)
Here's why I say what I did. Consider a quote from her Facebook page:
quote:
"For those who care, and I understand if you don't: Today I quit being a Christian. I'm out. I remain committed to Christ as always but not to being "Christian" or to being part of Christianity. It's simply impossible for me to 'belong' to this quarrelsome, hostile, disputatious, and deservedly infamous group. For ten …years, I've tried. I've failed. I'm an outsider. My conscience will allow nothing else.
As I said below, I quit being a Christian. I'm out. In the name of Christ, I refuse to be anti-gay. I refuse to be anti-feminist. I refuse to be anti-artificial birth control. I refuse to be anti-Democrat. I refuse to be anti-secular humanism. I refuse to be anti-science. I refuse to be anti-life. In the name of …Christ, I quit Christianity and being Christian. Amen."
While Catholics have traditionally been anti-artificial birth control and so forth, they have also been traditionally Democrat - so I don't think this is just against the Catholic church. Also, if she were leaving Christ, then I don't think she would say that she was remaining committed to Him. Anne Rice, like many other artists and writers is not conservative. And like many, she is turning away from the conservative parts of the church, while continuing to long for the word and the Lord Himself. It sounds to me that if she is still interested in the bible and theology, if she's still posting scripture and so forth, it seems to point to the fact that she is still hungering for Christ and might actually still believe - but she doesn't yet know how to separate Christ from our man made social and political doctrines.
Lots of people are in this boat. They love Christ, love the Bible, but they don't think the way the majority in their group thinks, so they either have to pretend to be something that they are not and profess to feel and believe something that they don't; they stay and endure it or fight; or they leave. Some find homes in other branches of Christianity or even start new denominations; others just drop out all together or meet in smaller groups. I know so many people like this - people who don't fit into the structure of church, but who really do love God. I've seen this time and again.
I think that the thing to do for Ms. Rice, is to continue to pray for her as we would for any sister or brother in the faith.
< Message edited by rgod -- 7/31/2010 12:15:45 AM >
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RE: Novelist Anne Rice Leaves "Christianity" - 7/30/2010 1:26:52 PM
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backrowbaptist
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This woman's very confused. She claims to be quiting Christianity, but still following Christ?
Greg Laurie has the perfect CW devotional for this topic today.
LINK
quote:
Friday, July 30, 2010
Holding On to Truth
"God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."
—John 4:24
Americans have never been more spiritual yet more immoral. Research done in 2009 by the Barna Group concluded that "increasingly, Americans are more interested in faith and spirituality than in Christianity." According to the study, Americans are now creating their own brand of faith.
And why not? Now that we live in the age of the iPod, the iPhone, and the iPad, why not the iGod? They keep what they like and throw out what they don't like. If they believe in a God of love and forgiveness and mercy, they keep that. And if they are offended by the biblical teaching of a God of holiness, righteousness, and judgment, they delete that. They are effectively making God in their own image. As it has been said, "God made man in His image, and man returned the favor." (my bolding)
That is exactly what this lost soul is doing. SHe needs prayer to see the error of her choices.
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RE: Novelist Anne Rice Leaves "Christianity" - 7/30/2010 5:00:16 PM
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SurfFirst
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Rice then added another post explaining her decision on Thursday:
“My faith in Christ is central to my life. My conversion from a pessimistic atheist lost in a world I didn't understand, to an optimistic believer in a universe created and sustained by a loving God is crucial to me," Rice wrote. "But following Christ does not mean following His followers. Christ is infinitely more important than Christianity and always will be, no matter what Christianity is, has been or might become.”
(quoted here)
It took me many years, but I reached a similar decision. Following Christ is quite different than following after His followers.
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RE: Novelist Anne Rice Leaves "Christianity" - 7/30/2010 5:51:36 PM
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Abbreviated
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She needs to read the OT.
She sounds bitter to me.
I find Catholosicm confusing.
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RE: Novelist Anne Rice Leaves "Christianity" - 7/30/2010 5:59:46 PM
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ta_mosquito
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How long has she been professing Christ? I can understand it in a sense, since she's a baby Christian, and the messages of the world are so strong.
One doesn't need to be anti-gay, anti-abortion, anti-birth control, anti-feminist etc. to become a Christian. However, one would expect that as that Christian grows in faith, he/she would begin to reflect the mind of God on such issues. Methinks she didn't have the opportunity or discipline to grow. Reminds me of the seed planted in shallow soil in the parable of the 4 kinds of seed.
(And please, let's not turn this into a debate on whether you can be pro-choice and a Christian, or the other hot button issues of the day.)
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RE: Novelist Anne Rice Leaves "Christianity" - 7/30/2010 6:07:08 PM
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ChosenNightwolf
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Sorry, but I don't agree. I have to go with Anne on this one, even though I am a Christian myself. Why are we the only army in the world that will shoot its own wounded instead of helping them as Jesus would have? The sooner we answer that question, the better off we'll be. Look at yourselves first, people. Listen and learn, because every time you point your finger in judgment, remember that there are three pointing right back at you. Deal?
< Message edited by ChosenNightwolf -- 7/30/2010 6:20:37 PM >
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RE: Novelist Anne Rice Leaves "Christianity" - 7/30/2010 6:46:22 PM
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backrowbaptist
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ChosenNightwolf
Sorry, but I don't agree. I have to go with Anne on this one, even though I am a Christian myself. Why are we the only army in the world that will shoot its own wounded instead of helping them as Jesus would have? The sooner we answer that question, the better off we'll be. Look at yourselves first, people. Listen and learn, because every time you point your finger in judgment, remember that there are three pointing right back at you. Deal?
Sorry, no deal. How do you know who's been introspective or not? Do you assume that someone disagreeing with you is ignorant?
True Christians point to the Bible, with three fingers pointing back saying the pointer needs to be obedient to what it says, EVERYTHING it says, whether it gets under our thin skin or not.
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RE: Novelist Anne Rice Leaves "Christianity" - 7/30/2010 6:51:26 PM
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ChosenNightwolf
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It's not up to you to judge, backrow. It's up to God, and I'm glad you're not Him. I stand by my last statement. I'm done with this particular topic.
< Message edited by ChosenNightwolf -- 7/30/2010 7:04:48 PM >
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RE: Novelist Anne Rice Leaves "Christianity" - 7/30/2010 7:47:38 PM
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backrowbaptist
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ChosenNightwolf
It's not up to you to judge, backrow. It's up to God, and I'm glad you're not Him. I stand by my last statement. I'm done with this particular topic.
That was my point to you, wolf. Sounds like I hit a nerve.
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Any of this gettin' through to you, son?
"If you can't suffer fools you're on the wrong planet"" - Unknown (to me)
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RE: Novelist Anne Rice Leaves "Christianity" - 7/31/2010 7:08:59 AM
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HisLamb26
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Good for her. I wonder how many sitting in the pews feel the same way, but having been raised in it they have a more difficult time untangling their faith from the social-political belief systems pushed by their churches and fellow believers?
quote:
Lots of people are in this boat. They love Christ, love the Bible, but they don't think the way the majority in their group thinks, so they either have to pretend to be something that they are not and profess to feel and believe something that they don't; they stay and endure it or fight; or they leave.
Bingo.
quote:
I know so many people like this - people who don't fit into the structure of church, but who really do love God.
Me too.
Churchianity refugees can be found in some interesting places.
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RE: Novelist Anne Rice Leaves "Christianity" - 7/31/2010 1:00:08 PM
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Abbreviated
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I read a comment somewhere else that maybe she wants to jump back on the vampire wagon.
I've not read any of her books. I've read one of her sons.
Tried to read one she wrote about Jesus & couldn't continue after the first chapter.
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RE: Novelist Anne Rice Leaves "Christianity" - 7/31/2010 2:51:14 PM
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jazzact13
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quote:
As I said below, I quit being a Christian. I'm out. In the name of Christ, I refuse to be anti-gay. I refuse to be anti-feminist. I refuse to be anti-artificial birth control. I refuse to be anti-Democrat. I refuse to be anti-secular humanism. I refuse to be anti-science. I refuse to be anti-life. In the name of …Christ, I quit Christianity and being Christian. Amen."
A lot of this is telling.
She refuses to be anti-gay? What does that mean, except that she refuses to acknowledge that the Bible in no way condones homosexuality, and she thinks the church should accept them?
She refuses to be anti-secular humanist? So, somehow the Bible and secular humanism are compatible?
She refuses to be anti-science? Oh, evolution over creation, right. And maybe a bit of embryonic stem-cell stuff thrown in for good measure.
She refuses to be anti-life? Is that a statement against abortion (which the church is against, so why would she bring it up?) or against war?
To sum up my take on this, it seems she want Christianity to conform to her wants, not that she should comform to it. I see similar statements all the time when reading and listening to emergents and progressives, adn so if she wants to find a god of her own making and to her own likings, she will no doubt find them in the offing.
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RE: Novelist Anne Rice Leaves "Christianity" - 7/31/2010 4:41:14 PM
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MrFribbles
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To an extent, all of us have done the same thing she has done. To some branch of Christianity out there, each of us has turned our back on their view of what the Bible teaches and what every good Christian should do.
Personally, I don't know enough about her past, or her life since her conversion, to say how drastic her change is. But I wouldn't go around saying she's turned away from Jesus because she doesn't hold to pet conservative views. A lot of conservatives ignore plenty of the Bible, so if we're going to demand perfect adherence to Scripture, we'd better start de-logging our eyes.
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RE: Novelist Anne Rice Leaves "Christianity" - 7/31/2010 5:13:02 PM
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stellaluna
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It sounds like she's rejecting a label, not necessarily a faith.
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RE: Novelist Anne Rice Leaves "Christianity" - 7/31/2010 5:16:34 PM
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rgod
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Abbreviated
I read a comment somewhere else that maybe she wants to jump back on the vampire wagon.
I've not read any of her books. I've read one of her sons.
Tried to read one she wrote about Jesus & couldn't continue after the first chapter.
Hi Abbreviated. I read a quote from her (I'll try to dig it up) that says that she isn't going back to writing about vampires. I only read one book of hers partially back in her vampire days - I wasn't saved back then so I don't know how I'd react to it now. I don't like the whole vampire thing for various reasons so it probably wouldn't be something I'd pick up now.
Why couldn't you continue reading her book about Jesus after the first chapter? Was it poor writing, inconsistencies with the Bible or something else?
quote:
It sounds like she's rejecting a label, not necessarily a faith.
Stellaluna - I like this. This is a concise way of putting it.
< Message edited by rgod -- 7/31/2010 5:27:48 PM >
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RE: Novelist Anne Rice Leaves "Christianity" - 8/1/2010 10:19:54 AM
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BelleWeather
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
To an extent, all of us have done the same thing she has done. To some branch of Christianity out there, each of us has turned our back on their view of what the Bible teaches and what every good Christian should do.
Personally, I don't know enough about her past, or her life since her conversion, to say how drastic her change is. But I wouldn't go around saying she's turned away from Jesus because she doesn't hold to pet conservative views. A lot of conservatives ignore plenty of the Bible, so if we're going to demand perfect adherence to Scripture, we'd better start de-logging our eyes.
Thank you, Mr. Fribbles.
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RE: Novelist Anne Rice Leaves "Christianity" - 8/1/2010 11:12:57 AM
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LivingParadox
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Well, of course the headline implies she is becoming apostic -- with the further comment I'm glad to see the quote was out of context. She does have the right idea that Christianity is about Christ not it's followers. As for the issues she has disagreement, the Holy Spirit will refine the edges where she is wrong and the areas that she is right, He will strengthen. Do I think she is a mature Christian, nah - But baby Christians have room for growth.
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RE: Novelist Anne Rice Leaves "Christianity" - 8/1/2010 11:38:23 AM
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backrowbaptist
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She may well be rejecting the 'labels' she cited, but Christianity is not a lone-wolf faith. She's essentially saying that, because we're imperfect, she doesn't need her fellow body of believers. It doesn't work that way.
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"If you can't suffer fools you're on the wrong planet"" - Unknown (to me)
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RE: Novelist Anne Rice Leaves "Christianity" - 8/1/2010 3:24:36 PM
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Abbreviated
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rgod
quote:
ORIGINAL: Abbreviated
I read a comment somewhere else that maybe she wants to jump back on the vampire wagon.
I've not read any of her books. I've read one of her sons.
Tried to read one she wrote about Jesus & couldn't continue after the first chapter.
...
Why couldn't you continue reading her book about Jesus after the first chapter? Was it poor writing, inconsistencies with the Bible or something else?
I think she had Jesus doing something as a child that would be considered a miracle. His first miracle was turning water into wine at a wedding when he was 30.
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RE: Novelist Anne Rice Leaves "Christianity" - 8/1/2010 8:02:13 PM
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Strider33
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I started my own thread on this topic, and that thread is now quite properly closed.
But I wanted to get responses to some of what I said. So I'm pasting that post in here.
I've seen the news accounts about how Anne Rice, the writer of Interview with a Vampire says she no longer wants to have anything to do with Christians. She claims that Christ remains central to her life. But she says that Christianity has come to stand for things she refuses to be. One of those things is "anti-Democrat".
I think this is a shame. I don't think walking with Christ is easy in this world, no matter what. But I think walking with Christ gets just that much harder when one tries to walk without other Christians. Christ commanded us to love one another. He didn't leave us that command because it would be easy or natural. It's hard to love your fellow Christian at times.
I don't know what went wrong between Anne Rice and the Christians she was closest to. Maybe they failed to love her. Or maybe they loved her, but expressed their love in a way that provoked animosity rather than gratitude. I can relate to that, myself. I've had plenty of issues with my brothers and sisters in Christ.
But withdrwal of someone from the body is not just evidence of a failure of love on the body's part. It's also a failure of love on the part of the person who withdraws.
I hope that ms. Rice will take such time as she needs to regain her inner composure, and then seek out Christians that she can learn to love, and who can learn to love her.
Meanwhile, for myself, I supported John McCain in the last election. I don't know if that makes me "anti-Democratic", but I don't think so. I think there ought to be room in the Christian church for people who think the Democrats have the better plan going forward, as well as for people who, like me, think the Republican plan is better. And there has to room as well for poeple who don't like either major party.
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RE: Novelist Anne Rice Leaves "Christianity" - 8/1/2010 11:56:43 PM
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rgod
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quote:
I think she had Jesus doing something as a child that would be considered a miracle. His first miracle was turning water into wine at a wedding when he was 30.
Thanks abbreviated. I was wondering what it was about the book that was problematic - appreciate you sharing that.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Strider33
I think this is a shame. I don't think walking with Christ is easy in this world, no matter what. But I think walking with Christ gets just that much harder when one tries to walk without other Christians. Christ commanded us to love one another. He didn't leave us that command because it would be easy or natural. It's hard to love your fellow Christian at times.
I agree. I pray that there will be some that will be able to befriend her at this time and show her the love of Christ, no strings attached.
quote:
But withdrwal of someone from the body is not just evidence of a failure of love on the body's part. It's also a failure of love on the part of the person who withdraws.
I agree. This is a hard truth, but an important one to remember. These things are rarely just one sided.
< Message edited by rgod -- 8/2/2010 12:13:01 AM >
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That's one of the areas HE will refine. She still thinks it's up to her.
