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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/12/2010 10:29:47 AM
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Sideways
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I also wonder, if parents are judged by their worse moments, if they are judged for not being perfect? Have I ever been angry when disciplining? Yes, and it's not right, but I don't abuse, and more often then not I am calm when I discipline. I learn from my mistakes and move on.
Have I ever felt frustrated or upset when Nathan misbehaves on a day when we're trying to do something nice for him? Of course, it's normal human feelings, but the above statement holds about learning and growing as a parent.
Of course, you'll always get that parent (not you Karen) who talks about how they always kept calm, always found some clever way to get their kid to do what the parent wanted without punishment, without tears or tantrums. They always knew what to do and were able to do it "gently". Well, good for you.
I think there are things I can learn from gentle parenting, but I couldn't adopt it 100%. I would only get more frustrated and angry, because I'd be going against what I believe to be right as a parent training a child.
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/12/2010 10:38:40 AM
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Sideways
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
lol. I'm agreeing with two people who I often differ with today, on both sides of a debate. 
Hee! It can make one dizzy.
Karen, if I've ever spanked in anger, it didn't make me think "I should never spank again." It makes me think "Well, that was a mistake, but let's evaluate what led up to the spanking, so I can control myself better and handle the situation differently in the future." I have noticed spankings getting more and more rare, but that's to be expected as a child ages and is able to understand better.
Beth might be a different story. She is starting to bite a lot, as if she continues it, then the natural consequence for inflicting pain will be to receive pain. I have a feeling that Nathan is merely a warm up to Beth, based on a number of personality traits I see emerging. But spanking will still rare, and I've learned a lot from parenting Nathan.
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/12/2010 10:44:36 AM
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manda59
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SurpassingPeace
quote:
I think there are things I can learn from gentle parenting, but I couldn't adopt it 100%. I would only get more frustrated and angry, because I'd be going against what I believe to be right as a parent training a child.
Is that because you believe you have to spank to train a child? I am curious to know what you mean here.
Yep, I'm curious about that too.
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/12/2010 10:47:33 AM
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peculiar_lady2
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quote:
First time obedience is not something I am always good at. Throw in the parents that demand it be cheerful as well and I would fail alot. To demand my preschooler always be control of herself and her feelings, no tantrums or getting emotionally a bit out of cotnrol, would be hypocrisy to the nth degree for me. I am not perfect or some days even very good at that. I fail alot. God treats me gentle and with a huge amount of grace and mercy. I choose to the same for my children. Again, I do not let them run wild but I redirect and lovingly help them deal with emotions. I use a ton of natural consequences.
Just because we spank sometimes does not mean we expect perfection out of our kids 100% of the time. I personally DON'T and wouldn't want them to be perfect..they are KIDS.
quote:
Many people see non spanking as permissive and therefore lazy parenting. My parenting is anything but. I spend much of my day stopping what I am doing to go over to my child, get down on there level, and deal with it there. Some people don't want to do it but it really does work.
Maybe it's just the way I am reading this, but I just wanted to point out that parents that spank ALSO get down on the level with their kids and take time out to discipline properly...not just swat their backside and go about our lazy selfish days.
On the note of the angry spanking- we have found that one thing that REALLY helps in our house is that we have sat down and figured out what we feel is a spanking worthy offense. For us, lying is a spanking (though not necessarily immediate and not always the only punishment), and safety issues are ALWAYS an immediately spanking. Now when I say spanking in reference to safety issues, because it is usually a very little toddler, I mean in perspective. I have found that tapping the back of the hand no harder then I am tapping this keyboard right now, and my reaction being upset at their touching something, is enough to teach a lesson that the stove is not to be touched. RARELY have I had to go further with any of my kids and actually inflict pain. Patting the air out of their diaper or tapping their hand (or for biting, even their cheek) has worked for all of my kids. Spanking is not about inflicting pain though...it is about nudging with physical touch just as you would a horse that you are riding, or just as you would a tree that you are growing if you want it to grow a certain way. Spanking is not necessarily a physically painful punishment.
My kids are definitely kids though. If someone needs to cry, they have every right to do so (though it will take place out of my ear, so they need to go to their room and have their fit, then come back to me when they are ready to talk or do what I say).
quote:
It appears that many of these parents punish more out of retribution (he embarrassed me, he didn't appreciate what I did, he was inconvienient, etc.) than trying to teach and guide into proper behaviors. Because my daughter is 2, I am often around the preschool set. It makes me sick to see children so heavily punished for normal, age appropriate behaviors. I am not saying that these behaviors should be allowed to flourish unchecked but have some grace. I know a couple that spanks when their 2 year old tells them "no" because it is defiance. It wasn't too long ago that Hannah told me no for everything, including when she meant yes. She was learning she had choices and she could exert control over her life. Far from being a bad thing, this is a good thing. This leads to the ability to make decisions later on in life.
I am seeing more and more people that want their children to obey on the surface and above all, do not embarrass them in public. These children could be brimming with rebellion in the heart or cowed into submission from fear of retribution. Neither are going to grow up to be healthy adults.
Karen- while I totally agree about that being the persona that some parents portray, I really don't think it has anything to do with spanking or not spanking. It's just those people...not the spanking itself. That is their personal issues.
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/12/2010 10:53:52 AM
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Sideways
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quote:
ORIGINAL: peculiar_lady2
My kids are definitely kids though. If someone needs to cry, they have every right to do so (though it will take place out of my ear, so they need to go to their room and have their fit, then come back to me when they are ready to talk or do what I say).
Yup. I don't spank for crying. Nathan is just asked to leave the room. If we're in a store, we leave the store (often without any treat we might've gotten there).
I don't spank for lying, because I don't think Nathan is old enough. But otherwise we're a lot like Sarah in what we spank for. And yes, I have many talks with my children down on there level, explaining what we expect of them and what is proper way to behave.
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/12/2010 10:57:13 AM
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Sideways
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Ok, I can't read you through the typed word. Was that tongue in cheek or serious?
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/12/2010 11:06:08 AM
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SurpassingPeace
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Sarah (it is Sarah right??), unless I am not understanding first time obedience, children are punished when they do not comply the first time and often cheerfully, I know this differs from family to family. So they are punished for not obeying perfectly. I don't see how you get around an expectation of perfection which no, they cannot live up to. None of us can.
I did not say that spanking parents are lazy. But I am saying that I find most parents that are punitive minded rely to heavily on physical punishment. That is not say you do or anyone else. I have noticed that it often becomes the "big stick" (no pun intended) that is easily overused.
I am not sure how you equate spanking to not being painful. Touching without pain is redirection, it is not spanking. What is the purpose of spanking if it does not create an uncomfortable painful situation?
quote:
Karen- while I totally agree about that being the persona that some parents portray, I really don't think it has anything to do with spanking or not spanking. It's just those people...not the spanking itself. That is their personal issues.
To me, those people with those personal issues tend to veer much more heavily to the spanking mindset. Again, I am not saying that all people who spank are of this mindset. This is a delicate topic and I don't want anyone to read more into my words than I am putting.
Ruth, my question is, is your basis for spanking because you believe the verses in Proverbs must be interpreted literally? I am not trying to trap you just understand more.
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/12/2010 11:07:53 AM
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Sideways
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Must all parents spank in order to be good parents? No.
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/12/2010 11:08:24 AM
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peculiar_lady2
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wow...Manda is feisty today!!!!
Oh....I didn't put our punishment list and I meant to. This is what we have come up with for spanking, so that we aren't making split second decisions or using this form of punishment when we are angry:
#1 safety issues. As I said above, we swat their diaper or tap their hand. No pain involved, but physical touch with a gasp usually does wanders. I honestly can't think of a time I have had to go further then that.
#2 lying. Some physical pain (because it's usually a child older then diaper age), but not really PAIN. Does that make sense? Always on the bottom. I can not use my hand (because of horrible pain from carpel tunnel), so I use a paddle. Believe me though, I am in much worse pain then they ever are...my hands can't take spanking very much, which helps keep things in perspective!! Usually we also get more into them writing or repeating a scripture also as part of training in this area.
#3 stealing. Again, like lying above- a little pain, but not a lot and it is combined with some other form of training.
For all other offenses it usually breaks down like this:
*Screaming fit- they are removed from the area/situation until they can calm down. They are removed from everyone else around them. Whatever they are pitching a fit about they do not get.
*Refusing to do what we have said to do or needing an attitude adjustment- we give one warning that they can adjust their attitude themselves or we will have to do it for them. If we have to do it for them, that means exercise. Jumping Jacks, running around the front yard, pushups, etc. It's amazing what attitudes fly out the window when they have to physically exert themselves with exercise!!!
I can't think of anything else that has ever come up that didn't somehow fit into those categories. We deal with the root of the issues, not necessarily the small piddly little things that come up all the time. If it's an ongoing issue then it needs correcting, but if it's not, then usually a warning that they need to get ___ in line gets everything back in working order.
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"God spreads grace like a 4 year old spreads peanut butter. He gets it all over everything!" ~Mark Lowry
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/12/2010 11:09:03 AM
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Sideways
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I did respond to you Manda, no need to get snippy.
Manda, you yourself have said that you spanked.
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/12/2010 11:17:30 AM
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manda59
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sideways
I did respond to you Manda, no need to get snippy.
I've looked again, and I still can't see a direct response to the question. Which post no. is it?
(And btw, I'm not getting "snippy", just stating things as they are.
(Edited to add: I can now see a response to the question, but it wasn't there when I allegedly got "snippy")
quote:
Manda, you yourself have said that you spanked.
I did.
And you mentioned this because ....?
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"Manda – I can often skip posting 'cause she's got it covered!", sen10tious, July 2010
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/12/2010 11:19:37 AM
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Sideways
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I answered Manda, just a few posts up.
Take care, Karen. I'm signing off as well.
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/12/2010 11:20:17 AM
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manda59
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sideways
Must all parents spank in order to be good parents? No.
Ok, so why do you believe that some parents must spank in order to be good parents?
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/12/2010 4:50:27 PM
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Sideways
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Must spank? Eh, that's a hard one, because I've only walked in my own shoes.
I've known kids and their parents, who tried many different parenting techniques, and spanking was the one that worked. Otherwise the kids would've been a holy terror. I'm of the opinion that there are some kids who absolutely should not be spanked because it backfires so badly or because the parents can't do it correctly. There are some kids for whom spanking is the only thing that works, and there are a bunch of kids who would probably respond to a whole host of techniques.
It's not really my call to make, but I think the key debate here is not whether or not spanking parents think that "gentle" parents are bad parents, but really the reverse.
In the front yard example, Karen said she would pick up Hannah and outdoor playtime would be over for running into the street. If one is the only adult home and you have more then one child, that means all children are punished for the infractions of one child. I don't like doing that myself, but I know some families use that technique.
Spanking (in my experience) is effective, quick, non-abusive and allows everyone to get on with their lives while still teaching the youngster how to behave properly. That being said, Nathan isn't spanked a whole lot anymore.
Manda, I think the main jist of my opinion has been made very clear in this thread. If I'm going to get nitpicked for every word choice, I'll leave y'all to it. Otherwise, I'm happy to share thoughts and ideas.
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RE: To Spank Or Not To Spank - One Stop Thread - 3/12/2010 5:46:13 PM
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Sideways
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Maggie, the "must" thing comes from a word choice in one of my posts, which is why I made the last comment I did.
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