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worried about this? - 3/5/2010 1:24:29 PM
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ushalk
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has anyone read 1 tim. 4 lately. this is probably the most scary chapter in the bible for many preachers and teachers in america to read. what do you all think?
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if we hide the truth we kill a soul.
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RE: worried about this? - 3/5/2010 1:41:49 PM
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CMT8808
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I agree that our Lord holds preachers and teachers to a higher standard, because they are responsible for leading His "flock (people) and they need to be aware that their teaching/preaching is true.
But He also gave examples in the O.T. about one's conscience being seared (hardening of the heart) using Joseph and his brothers as an example.
If they were God minded and not self centered, selfish, they would have joined God in his plan to save the people of Israel when the time of famine came.
It shows how their behavior caused them to hate which is the opposite of what God is.
I also believe this applies to others who do ministry work. Know God, Know Jesus, and make sure you are teaching His truth, because if you stray then you will have to answer Him when you get to that door.
CMT
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RE: worried about this? - 3/6/2010 12:26:39 AM
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gralan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ushalk
has anyone read 1 tim. 4 lately. this is probably the most scary chapter in the bible for many preachers and teachers in america to read. what do you all think?
Its not only a problem for people who think they are teachers and preachers. Just think of all the people who act like they are teachers and preachers?
For anyone to stand up and say to others "The Lord saith..." or "The Lord laid upon my heart this last week....", or "I felt I needed to share this with you..." they are accountable to the same words. Because the same root words in the Greek are used for the title and the presumed capability to act.
There are those who do not speak up. They are not held to the same standard.
This is not just my opinion. If it would have been, I freely admit to it.
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gralan,
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//TrinityTheology.org/
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RE: worried about this? - 3/6/2010 7:49:01 AM
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19ramman85
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Not any more scarier than ...................
quote:
When working around energized equipment and or wires, it is imperative to be aware of your surroundings;
1) Appropriate safety equipment - "MUST", be worn at all times
2) Groundings - "MUST", be adequate and secure
3) Avoid wearing any type of jewelry
4) Avoid working in water, or damp enviroment(s)
and so on, and so forth!
Or, like gralan said, and I will add to it; Its not only a problem for people who think they are teachers and preachers. Just think of all the people who act like they are teachers and preachers?" Those are the peeps who should be scared by 1 Timothy 4 !
-charles
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RE: worried about this? - 3/6/2010 9:25:16 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gralan
There are those who do not speak up. They are not held to the same standard.
So if God speaks (puts it in the heart) to someone to speak of the Oracles of God, and they do not do so; would that not be disobedience?
Thanks
RC
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RE: worried about this? - 3/6/2010 9:39:03 AM
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Kat_D
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ushalk
has anyone read 1 tim. 4 lately. this is probably the most scary chapter in the bible for many preachers and teachers in america to read. what do you all think?
If churches payed closer attention to I Timothy 3 before allowing someone to be a pastor and occupy the pulpit, we wouldn't have to worry so much about I Timothy 4.
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~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: worried about this? - 3/6/2010 5:59:10 PM
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ushalk
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the one thing that would scare me is if my conscence is seared by a hot iron. that is a scary thing not to feel the conviction of the holy spirit in my life.
_____________________________
if we hide the truth we kill a soul.
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RE: worried about this? - 3/6/2010 10:32:53 PM
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gralan
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I believe that taking care to humble oneself before God and submit tends to keep the spiritual juices flowing, so to speak. Its been an interesting journey, and I expect it to last my lifetime and beyond.
The conscience gets seared by regular hardening of the heart towards God and others; in my experience. Recovery is painful and slow. It is injurious to oneself, it really does damage.
Some folks think that all this talk is "spiritual" or ethereal as if it is just a way of speaking of realities. No, these are realities.
My wife and I chose a church tradition that focused upon the Sovereignty of God and the public reading of the Word of God. Paul writes to Timothy about that. I'm a firm believer that Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.
There is something different in terms of really listening to the Bible, rather than reading it. I'm convinced the word of God was meant to be lived but also to be spoken and heard.
I'm not referring to quoting Bible passages as advice out to folks, but actually memorizing it (like the whole book of Titus, its short), and speaking it aloud for others to hear. Reading entire context of a passage that is going to be studied, rather than abbreviating the text such as:
Today's reading is from Hezekiah 6, verses 1-3b, 5-9 and 21.
That isn't reading from the Bible, that is like cherry picking at its worst. It shows no respect for the Word of God or us listeners. Give us the text and its context, or shut up... in my opinion.
Too many preachers and teachers are story-tellers, and that is horrible. Give us the word of God, in the name of the Lord. Tell me your stories at coffee-hour or in Sunday School.
But then, that is my opinion. Perhaps what the church needs is more people who link the Gospel with nice stories. I just do not think so. And it isn't keeping with the point Paul makes in 1 Timothy.
IMO. I may be mistaken, but that has never stopped me before. 
_____________________________
suffering servant,
gralan,
BTh student TGSAT
//TrinityTheology.org/
check out:
//freecourses.trinitytheology.org/
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RE: worried about this? - 3/9/2010 2:42:52 PM
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ushalk
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i agree with the hardening of the hearts. however i also believe that it can be seared by going to a theology school for the soul purpose of a carreer rather than the fact that they are saved. this bringing out most of the false teachings. this telling me that many theology schools are false and brought out by the desire of the things in this world rather than christ.
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if we hide the truth we kill a soul.
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RE: worried about this? - 3/9/2010 8:41:07 PM
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gralan
Posts: 2019
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From: RV in Texas
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There are many who have gone to careers in the Christian Arena who do it under false pretenses.
Most local churches do not tend to think it is important to call people out for ministries, and then make sure these folks get equipped to do their ministries, and have resources to do that. I'm not just talking pastors, but music directors, administrators (that's a spiritual gift that gets ignored too often), helps, etc.
We have bought into an individual idea of service, and yet our service is under the Head Jesus Christ, to the Body for its health and proper function. It doesn't matter what you want to be doing, what has God called you to do is the question.
There are too many people thinking that since they have knowledge they are called to teach and preach. This too has to be reconciled with the truth of the Bible. This idea is just not Biblical.
Many of the problems stem from folks making false divisions in the Church, not just in Christendom. That too is a shameful act that you would think after almost 2000 years we would have listened to God the Holy Spirit on how to stop that treasonous activity. But it hasn't happened, and people rebel against our King over and over under the guise of being the true patriots. I am speaking purely in a spiritual sense here, please do not misunderstand that.
Our heart gets hardened easily. Daily soaking in the word and by actively loving other real human beings is the cure I found works most often.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ushalk
i agree with the hardening of the hearts. however i also believe that it can be seared by going to a theology school for the soul purpose of a carreer rather than the fact that they are saved. this bringing out most of the false teachings. this telling me that many theology schools are false and brought out by the desire of the things in this world rather than christ.
_____________________________
suffering servant,
gralan,
BTh student TGSAT
//TrinityTheology.org/
check out:
//freecourses.trinitytheology.org/
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RE: worried about this? - 4/5/2010 10:35:51 PM
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ushalk
Posts: 300
Joined: 4/15/2009
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how many people in the churches know what true ministry is? how many churches actually have true unity? i see in churches today as long as we worship alike and pray the came words we have unity and our works of faith are going to church. there is more about what is right in the world than what is right in christ. give me a self help solution from a pastor and call it good. lets be all bout a relationship with our bible and none with the l0rd of the bible.
quote:
ORIGINAL: gralan
There are many who have gone to careers in the Christian Arena who do it under false pretenses.
Most local churches do not tend to think it is important to call people out for ministries, and then make sure these folks get equipped to do their ministries, and have resources to do that. I'm not just talking pastors, but music directors, administrators (that's a spiritual gift that gets ignored too often), helps, etc.
We have bought into an individual idea of service, and yet our service is under the Head Jesus Christ, to the Body for its health and proper function. It doesn't matter what you want to be doing, what has God called you to do is the question.
There are too many people thinking that since they have knowledge they are called to teach and preach. This too has to be reconciled with the truth of the Bible. This idea is just not Biblical.
Many of the problems stem from folks making false divisions in the Church, not just in Christendom. That too is a shameful act that you would think after almost 2000 years we would have listened to God the Holy Spirit on how to stop that treasonous activity. But it hasn't happened, and people rebel against our King over and over under the guise of being the true patriots. I am speaking purely in a spiritual sense here, please do not misunderstand that.
Our heart gets hardened easily. Daily soaking in the word and by actively loving other real human beings is the cure I found works most often.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ushalk
i agree with the hardening of the hearts. however i also believe that it can be seared by going to a theology school for the soul purpose of a carreer rather than the fact that they are saved. this bringing out most of the false teachings. this telling me that many theology schools are false and brought out by the desire of the things in this world rather than christ.
_____________________________
if we hide the truth we kill a soul.
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RE: worried about this? - 4/6/2010 4:09:37 AM
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Dakotasunbeam
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IF one evaluates oneself by the Word of God, and lives to glorify God the exhortation is one of encouragement and just warning.
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RE: worried about this? - 4/6/2010 1:20:51 PM
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ushalk
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
IF one evaluates oneself by the Word of God, and lives to glorify God the exhortation is one of encouragement and just warning.
well i believe the "church" just got its warning. as long as people believe that and are tught that it is alright to live in adultery, fornication, idolitery etc... god will remove his hand from the church. for the feel good, chase after the things of this world teachings and lies.
_____________________________
if we hide the truth we kill a soul.
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RE: worried about this? - 4/6/2010 1:51:46 PM
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jn1010lf
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Hello ushalk
Yes, 1 Timothy 4 is a scary scripture. It will weed out the men of faith from the fun guys in the body of Christ. It's not part of the sugar coated think-nice-thoughts-and-watch-all-the pretty-little gifts will fall at your feet.
I think most preachers are afraid that their congregations would shrink drastically if they preached on it too much. However, I do feel that all of the have an obligation to preach that God will raise their faith to withstand anything that his fallen world will throw at them.
It might help to point out that Stephen was at perfect peace while being stoned. How? He saw Jesus while it was happening. It was similar to Jesus who say the glory beyond the cross and was able then to endure it.
One role of the Holy Spirit is to prepare believers for what's ahead. He gives strength and endurance far beyond what our mortal minds can go. So, cut loose on preaching the Holy Spirit. He is God expressing Himself on the contemporary scene.
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RE: worried about this? - 4/6/2010 3:31:46 PM
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ushalk
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if they preach to much? so just dont preach it at all? because if we do explore the real truth of the gospel then people may actually feel the conviction of the holy spirit for their sins and then get offended and not give us their money anymore. then we may not prosper in the flesh and that will make ud a false church. we all know that the churches with the most members is the church that is true. where does this garbage come from? it is definately not in the word of god, that is a fact.
_____________________________
if we hide the truth we kill a soul.
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RE: worried about this? - 4/7/2010 7:23:04 PM
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Expatriot
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And everyone here and in any forum should realize they are acting as teacher and preachers which I think Garlan first touched on.
So has everyone here applied these standards to their own life before criticizing others fro this "pulpit"?
Married to one woman (meaning married once). Children are loyal. Upright steady, consistent member of a church. Well-versed in the Word. Given the gift of teaching or preaching or both.
aside to RC: You been reading Charles Whitaker? 
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